What Should Pentax Do?

D1N0 · 09-29-2014, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Don't rule out a later 'real' version targeted at existing customers, D1N0.

These 'S' versions of the K and Q series are aimed at young buyers attempting more serious photography than the fixed lens phones or compacts they've used in the past.

The president of Ricoh Imaging said there's no point in the company merely mirroring Canon and Nikon, who face troubles of their own, BTW.

Their is also no point in not mirroring useful improvements to a dslr. especially when potential customers are already used to those features. It's in every smartphone.

**clackers** · 09-29-2014, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Their is also no point in not mirroring useful improvements to a dslr. especially when potential customers are already used to those features. It's in every smartphone.

They will have the phone already, D1N0, so the game is to supplement it, not match it feature-for-feature.

If it was, we'd all be using Galaxy S4 Zooms.

D1N0 · 09-29-2014, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by clackers

They will have the phone already, D1N0, so the game is to supplement it, not match it feature-for-feature.

If it was, we'd all be using Galaxy S4 Zooms.

Yes and they want the ability to directly share pictures from their camera, like they can with their phone. The camera has superior creative potential, but it lacks connectivity. Ricoh's solution with flucard is a bit cumbersome. They should bundle it so you don't have to get one afterwards.

kadajawi · 09-29-2014, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by clackers

They will have the phone already, D1N0, so the game is to supplement it, not match it feature-for-feature.

If it was, we'd all be using Galaxy S4 Zooms.

It is not really a supplement if there is no connection between the two though, is there?

@clackers: Oh, I'll just get a K-mount adapter, no worries, the lenses worth keeping will be kept.

Canon and Nikon have problems... indeed. Maybe because Canon thinks it is far more profitable to sell a few cine cameras than many regular DSLRs (and they may have a point there, they can charge 10k for a camera that could go under heavy internal competition if they'd upgrade their DSLRs a bit... which sell for 1-2k). Nikon isn't forward thinking enough, though I suspect from recent interviews they are really suffering from the Fujitsu Milbeaut... they can't offer more than Fujitsu gives them, and unfortunately that isn't much. The real innovators are sitting elsewhere, and I suspect they will get the sales in future. To me, Canon, Nikon and Pentax are like RIM (Blackberry) and Nokia, and to a certain degree Microsoft (that'd be Canon probably, big enough not to fail, but thanks to ignoring market trends a mere shadow of itself).

Btw., if all I want is a good stills camera with no connectivity or anything... Pentax has been making them for ages. A K-5 is a wonderful camera, why would I ever want to change? The improvements on the stills side would have to be huge in order to make me consider upgrading.

**clackers** · 09-29-2014, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

They should bundle it so you don't have to get one afterwards.

Agreed. An attention deficit generation wants everything in the box.

I've just received my Samsung Mini NX and of course you need a phone for tethering and uploading, but there's already a wireless NIC and NFC interfaces inside it.

Clavius · 09-29-2014, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Yes and they want the ability to directly share pictures from their camera, like they can with their phone. The camera has superior creative potential, but it lacks connectivity. Ricoh's solution with flucard is a bit cumbersome. They should bundle it so you don't have to get one afterwards.

It's not cumbersome because you have to get one afterwards. It's cumbersome because the entire process of getting the camera and other device to communicate via that card is extremely fidgety and frustrating.

Alizarine · 10-01-2014, 02:08 AM

Going back to the question, "What should Pentax do?"

Here's one of the activities Nikon is doing in the Philippines (as of now, Manila):

Things like this drive their own market wild, and create talk and enthusiasm among non-photographers that inspire them to "join"

I don't think events like this make better photographers out of people but sure does sell a lot of cameras.

kadajawi · 10-01-2014, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

Going back to the question, "What should Pentax do?"

Here's one of the activities Nikon is doing in the Philippines (as of now, Manila):

Things like this drive their own market wild, and create talk and enthusiasm among non-photographers that inspire them to "join"

I don't think events like this make better photographers out of people but sure does sell a lot of cameras.

Pentax (or rather their distributor) is doing that in Malaysia.

Mr Spocko · 10-05-2014, 08:52 AM

It's too late for full frame boat has sailed ages ago and they don't have enough FF lenses. Only reason Sony did it was probably because they make the sensors and they had some full frame lens designs from MInolta. I can't see it working for Pentax "unless" they can do something at a very appealing price point

ElJamoquio · 10-05-2014, 08:57 AM - **1 Like**

There's more FF lenses than Fuji has lenses, period.

There's more FF lenses than Sony has E lenses.

Etc.

Kunzite · 10-05-2014, 09:03 AM

We'd have to count third-party, or out-of-production (but still available on the second market) Pentax lenses for #1 to be true, though.
Anyway, Pentax has some lenses, they're preparing more, and they have an user base waiting for a FF. It might work. And I'm sitting here, money in my bank account, saying: "make it and I'll buy it!" (I trust them to make something I'd want to buy).

ElJamoquio · 10-05-2014, 09:19 AM

Older list - lenses advertised or patented by Pentax as full-frame lenses

FA 31mm f1.8 Limited
FA 43mm f1.9 Limited
DFA 50mm f2.8 macro
FA 50mm f1.4
DA 50mm f1.8
FA 77mm f1.8 Limited
DFA 100mm f/2.8 macro
DA* 300mm f4

Also FF-covering:
9. DA*200mm f2.8
10. DA 35mm f2.4
11. DA 40mm f2.8
12. DA 55mm f1.4

About 40 lenses including third party...
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/183420-curr...#ixzz3FHu65d19

I count 15 lenses for Fuji right now.

D1N0 · 10-05-2014, 11:39 AM

DA 40mm f2.8 xs :P and the DA 70mm F2.4

ElJamoquio · 10-05-2014, 11:41 AM

I tried not to double-count for either Fuji or Pentax. I consider the XS double-counting the same lens.

Mr Spocko · 10-05-2014, 11:43 AM

You'll need a lot more than that esp zoom lenses FF won't work for Pentax they're not even doing that well with APS-C which is shame but the rot set in years ago Hoya priced them off the market (lenses) and it's just too late IMO to make a big push. Ricoh are a bit of a mixed bag too just not enough development esp with "lenses people want to buy"

10-05-2014, 09:19 AM	#477
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Older list - lenses advertised or patented by Pentax as full-frame lenses FA 31mm f1.8 Limited FA 43mm f1.9 Limited DFA 50mm f2.8 macro FA 50mm f1.4 DA 50mm f1.8 FA 77mm f1.8 Limited DFA 100mm f/2.8 macro DA* 300mm f4 Also FF-covering: 9. DA*200mm f2.8 10. DA 35mm f2.4 11. DA 40mm f2.8 12. DA 55mm f1.4 About 40 lenses including third party... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/183420-curr...#ixzz3FHu65d19 I count 15 lenses for Fuji right now.

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09-29-2014, 04:18 AM	#466
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by clackers Don't rule out a later 'real' version targeted at existing customers, D1N0. These 'S' versions of the K and Q series are aimed at young buyers attempting more serious photography than the fixed lens phones or compacts they've used in the past. The president of Ricoh Imaging said there's no point in the company merely mirroring Canon and Nikon, who face troubles of their own, BTW. Their is also no point in not mirroring useful improvements to a dslr. especially when potential customers are already used to those features. It's in every smartphone.

09-29-2014, 04:29 AM	#467
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by D1N0 Their is also no point in not mirroring useful improvements to a dslr. especially when potential customers are already used to those features. It's in every smartphone. They will have the phone already, D1N0, so the game is to supplement it, not match it feature-for-feature. If it was, we'd all be using Galaxy S4 Zooms.

09-29-2014, 04:37 AM	#468
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by clackers They will have the phone already, D1N0, so the game is to supplement it, not match it feature-for-feature. If it was, we'd all be using Galaxy S4 Zooms. Yes and they want the ability to directly share pictures from their camera, like they can with their phone. The camera has superior creative potential, but it lacks connectivity. Ricoh's solution with flucard is a bit cumbersome. They should bundle it so you don't have to get one afterwards.

09-29-2014, 04:45 AM	#469
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by clackers They will have the phone already, D1N0, so the game is to supplement it, not match it feature-for-feature. If it was, we'd all be using Galaxy S4 Zooms. It is not really a supplement if there is no connection between the two though, is there? @clackers: Oh, I'll just get a K-mount adapter, no worries, the lenses worth keeping will be kept. Canon and Nikon have problems... indeed. Maybe because Canon thinks it is far more profitable to sell a few cine cameras than many regular DSLRs (and they may have a point there, they can charge 10k for a camera that could go under heavy internal competition if they'd upgrade their DSLRs a bit... which sell for 1-2k). Nikon isn't forward thinking enough, though I suspect from recent interviews they are really suffering from the Fujitsu Milbeaut... they can't offer more than Fujitsu gives them, and unfortunately that isn't much. The real innovators are sitting elsewhere, and I suspect they will get the sales in future. To me, Canon, Nikon and Pentax are like RIM (Blackberry) and Nokia, and to a certain degree Microsoft (that'd be Canon probably, big enough not to fail, but thanks to ignoring market trends a mere shadow of itself). Btw., if all I want is a good stills camera with no connectivity or anything... Pentax has been making them for ages. A K-5 is a wonderful camera, why would I ever want to change? The improvements on the stills side would have to be huge in order to make me consider upgrading.

09-29-2014, 04:47 AM	#470
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by D1N0 They should bundle it so you don't have to get one afterwards. Agreed. An attention deficit generation wants everything in the box. I've just received my Samsung Mini NX and of course you need a phone for tethering and uploading, but there's already a wireless NIC and NFC interfaces inside it.

09-29-2014, 05:03 AM	#471
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by D1N0 Yes and they want the ability to directly share pictures from their camera, like they can with their phone. The camera has superior creative potential, but it lacks connectivity. Ricoh's solution with flucard is a bit cumbersome. They should bundle it so you don't have to get one afterwards. It's not cumbersome because you have to get one afterwards. It's cumbersome because the entire process of getting the camera and other device to communicate via that card is extremely fidgety and frustrating.

10-01-2014, 02:08 AM	#472
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Going back to the question, "What should Pentax do?" Here's one of the activities Nikon is doing in the Philippines (as of now, Manila): Things like this drive their own market wild, and create talk and enthusiasm among non-photographers that inspire them to "join" I don't think events like this make better photographers out of people but sure does sell a lot of cameras.

10-01-2014, 04:23 AM	#473
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Alizarine Going back to the question, "What should Pentax do?" Here's one of the activities Nikon is doing in the Philippines (as of now, Manila): Things like this drive their own market wild, and create talk and enthusiasm among non-photographers that inspire them to "join" I don't think events like this make better photographers out of people but sure does sell a lot of cameras. Pentax (or rather their distributor) is doing that in Malaysia.

10-05-2014, 08:52 AM	#474
Mr Spocko Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 254	It's too late for full frame boat has sailed ages ago and they don't have enough FF lenses. Only reason Sony did it was probably because they make the sensors and they had some full frame lens designs from MInolta. I can't see it working for Pentax "unless" they can do something at a very appealing price point

10-05-2014, 08:57 AM - 1 Like	#475
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	There's more FF lenses than Fuji has lenses, period. There's more FF lenses than Sony has E lenses. Etc.

10-05-2014, 09:03 AM	#476
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	We'd have to count third-party, or out-of-production (but still available on the second market) Pentax lenses for #1 to be true, though. Anyway, Pentax has some lenses, they're preparing more, and they have an user base waiting for a FF. It might work. And I'm sitting here, money in my bank account, saying: "make it and I'll buy it!" (I trust them to make something I'd want to buy).

10-05-2014, 11:39 AM	#478
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	DA 40mm f2.8 xs :P and the DA 70mm F2.4

10-05-2014, 11:41 AM	#479
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	I tried not to double-count for either Fuji or Pentax. I consider the XS double-counting the same lens.

10-05-2014, 11:43 AM	#480
Mr Spocko Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 254	You'll need a lot more than that esp zoom lenses FF won't work for Pentax they're not even doing that well with APS-C which is shame but the rot set in years ago Hoya priced them off the market (lenses) and it's just too late IMO to make a big push. Ricoh are a bit of a mixed bag too just not enough development esp with "lenses people want to buy"