Pentax forum questions for Ricoh at Photokina

MarkJerling · 09-07-2014, 10:48 PM

I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 09-07-2014 at 10:55 PM.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-08-2014, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by LeeRunge

I'd just like to see a speedbooster for Pentax to get some FF like dof. I think APS-C quality is so close now that really it's just the DOF your losing.

You are not loosing DOF with APS, you are gaining. 99,99% of all images taken have some DOF. APS give you one stop faster shutterspeed at the same DOF as FF. This is a bonus. Only for the small percentage of images that have smaller DOF than APS can provide (they usually suck anyway), will thinner DOF be seen as a bonus. However, it can easily and much cheaper be achieved in Photoshop....

**Belnan** · 09-08-2014, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z.

Pentax likes to make big anouncements in the spring time. Besides the K-mount line up isn't ready for a new flagship camera. If they happen to release a 70-200 F2.8 DFA* I think that might give us a pretty good indication. I guess we will see soon.

thibs · 09-08-2014, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Belnan

Besides the K-mount line up isn't ready for a new flagship camera. If they happen to release a 70-200 F2.8 DFA* I think that might give us a pretty good indication. I guess we will see soon.

They aren't stupid. They WON'T announce such a lens without the FF camera coming with it.

MarkJerling · 09-08-2014, 01:32 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Belnan

Pentax likes to make big anouncements in the spring time. Besides the K-mount line up isn't ready for a new flagship camera. If they happen to release a 70-200 F2.8 DFA* I think that might give us a pretty good indication. I guess we will see soon.

Yes, but unfortunately not my springtime!

**monochrome** · 09-08-2014, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z.

I suppose if you want FF you hope that 645Z sales slow down.

Alcazar · 09-08-2014, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

APS give you one stop faster shutterspeed at the same DOF as FF

this is the first time i hear of this. do you have a source to back this up, or can you explain further?

normhead · 09-08-2014, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Alcazar

this is the first time i hear of this. do you have a source to back this up, or can you explain further?

Its the flip side of FF gives you less DoF (which some call more control) . So if you like your DoF at ƒ8 on FF, you'll get the same DoF on ƒ5.6 on APS-c. It's not exact , because you have to enlarge the APS-c image twice as much to get the same size image... your circles of confusion will be twice as large meaning shallower DoF to go with the better DoF. I've never even investigated what the outcome of this exercise is. It all seems rather pointless to me... you get what you get.

**GlassJunkie** · 09-08-2014, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

Yes, but unfortunately not my springtime!

I suspect that an ILC of FF may preempt a FF DSLR.

Second I suspect they would not launch a DSLR (if at all) until they have enough attendant glass, NOT relying on any "kit" lens, so they need D-FA/FA* from ~18/20mm to 300 f2.8 and longer if they want to "compete" with platforms that sporties and birders use/need.

Third, they won't launch a FF until they can meet/beat the biggies with a "blowout success" like 645z or K-3 (what it did to d7100 and 70d), so not until it's feasible to deliver 40+mp for an edge..... It is in Pentax' DNA to frame a product launch....

Hence 2-3 years out on DSLR, ILC FF in 1.5-2...

My twisted view....

---------- Post added 09-08-14 at 05:07 PM ----------

Originally posted by normhead

Its the flip side of FF gives you less DoF (which some call more control) . So if you like your DoF at ƒ8 on FF, you'll get the same DoF on ƒ5.6 on APS-c. It's not exact since, because you have to enlarge the APS-c image twice as much to get the same size image... your circles of confusion will be twice as large meaning shallower DoF to go with the better DoF. I've never even investigated what the outcome of this exercise is. It all seems rather pointless to me... you get what you get.

Nicely laid out.....

Uluru · 09-08-2014, 04:11 PM - **1 Like**

Let's dress up like this, pull out K1000s, rolls of TRI X, show a 35mm optical chip wafer and start the interview:

mee · 09-08-2014, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z.

Wonder how many we'll see jump ship!

I'm interested in new lenses for my K-5 II but would like to see a K-50 replacement

JimmyDranox · 09-08-2014, 05:36 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z.

Before showing Canikon buyers anything, Ricoh must show to Pentax users that they don't need to buy another system's gears to fulfill the needs of a modern photographer.

MarkJerling · 09-08-2014, 05:45 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

I suppose if you want FF you hope that 645Z sales slow down.

LOL. No, I hope they sell many, many 645's! Hopefully, they'll sell so many that they'll think - heck - we can sell something with a bigger sensor.

I love this video clip.

You Tube

**monochrome** · 09-08-2014, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

LOL. No, I hope they sell many, many 645's! Hopefully, they'll sell so many that they'll think - heck - we can sell something with a bigger sensor.

The question seems to be whether Ricoh are production constrained and 645Z production bumped FF plans out until next spring because they don't even have the facilities to assemble FF cameras available. Extending the story, FF lens engineering was supposedly bumped out to redo all these new 645 lenses we're seeing. Etc., etc. Orders in hand trump Unicorns every day.

Maybe that's ALL a bunch of hooey but a few members have said that directly.

**interested_observer** · 09-08-2014, 06:05 PM

Well it's much better to be production constrained, then to have warehouses full of depreciating inventory that is not selling so quickly....

09-08-2014, 02:00 PM	#278
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Alcazar this is the first time i hear of this. do you have a source to back this up, or can you explain further? Its the flip side of FF gives you less DoF (which some call more control) . So if you like your DoF at ƒ8 on FF, you'll get the same DoF on ƒ5.6 on APS-c. It's not exact , because you have to enlarge the APS-c image twice as much to get the same size image... your circles of confusion will be twice as large meaning shallower DoF to go with the better DoF. I've never even investigated what the outcome of this exercise is. It all seems rather pointless to me... you get what you get. Last edited by normhead; 09-08-2014 at 02:19 PM.

09-08-2014, 05:36 PM - 2 Likes	#282
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	Originally posted by MarkJerling I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z. Before showing Canikon buyers anything, Ricoh must show to Pentax users that they don't need to buy another system's gears to fulfill the needs of a modern photographer. Last edited by JimmyDranox; 09-08-2014 at 05:49 PM.

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09-07-2014, 10:48 PM	#271
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z. Last edited by MarkJerling; 09-07-2014 at 10:55 PM.

09-08-2014, 08:12 AM	#272
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by LeeRunge I'd just like to see a speedbooster for Pentax to get some FF like dof. I think APS-C quality is so close now that really it's just the DOF your losing. You are not loosing DOF with APS, you are gaining. 99,99% of all images taken have some DOF. APS give you one stop faster shutterspeed at the same DOF as FF. This is a bonus. Only for the small percentage of images that have smaller DOF than APS can provide (they usually suck anyway), will thinner DOF be seen as a bonus. However, it can easily and much cheaper be achieved in Photoshop....

09-08-2014, 08:19 AM	#273
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Originally posted by MarkJerling I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z. Pentax likes to make big anouncements in the spring time. Besides the K-mount line up isn't ready for a new flagship camera. If they happen to release a 70-200 F2.8 DFA* I think that might give us a pretty good indication. I guess we will see soon.

09-08-2014, 01:30 PM	#274
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Belnan Besides the K-mount line up isn't ready for a new flagship camera. If they happen to release a 70-200 F2.8 DFA* I think that might give us a pretty good indication. I guess we will see soon. They aren't stupid. They WON'T announce such a lens without the FF camera coming with it.

09-08-2014, 01:32 PM - 1 Like	#275
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by Belnan Pentax likes to make big anouncements in the spring time. Besides the K-mount line up isn't ready for a new flagship camera. If they happen to release a 70-200 F2.8 DFA* I think that might give us a pretty good indication. I guess we will see soon. Yes, but unfortunately not my springtime!

09-08-2014, 01:51 PM	#276
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by MarkJerling I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z. I suppose if you want FF you hope that 645Z sales slow down.

09-08-2014, 01:53 PM	#277
Alcazar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 210	Originally posted by Pål Jensen APS give you one stop faster shutterspeed at the same DOF as FF this is the first time i hear of this. do you have a source to back this up, or can you explain further?

09-08-2014, 02:05 PM	#279
GlassJunkie Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Petersburg Photos: Albums Posts: 402	Originally posted by MarkJerling Yes, but unfortunately not my springtime! I suspect that an ILC of FF may preempt a FF DSLR. Second I suspect they would not launch a DSLR (if at all) until they have enough attendant glass, NOT relying on any "kit" lens, so they need D-FA/FA* from ~18/20mm to 300 f2.8 and longer if they want to "compete" with platforms that sporties and birders use/need. Third, they won't launch a FF until they can meet/beat the biggies with a "blowout success" like 645z or K-3 (what it did to d7100 and 70d), so not until it's feasible to deliver 40+mp for an edge..... It is in Pentax' DNA to frame a product launch.... Hence 2-3 years out on DSLR, ILC FF in 1.5-2... My twisted view.... ---------- Post added 09-08-14 at 05:07 PM ---------- Originally posted by normhead Its the flip side of FF gives you less DoF (which some call more control) . So if you like your DoF at ƒ8 on FF, you'll get the same DoF on ƒ5.6 on APS-c. It's not exact since, because you have to enlarge the APS-c image twice as much to get the same size image... your circles of confusion will be twice as large meaning shallower DoF to go with the better DoF. I've never even investigated what the outcome of this exercise is. It all seems rather pointless to me... you get what you get. Nicely laid out.....

09-08-2014, 04:11 PM - 1 Like	#280
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Let's dress up like this, pull out K1000s, rolls of TRI X, show a 35mm optical chip wafer and start the interview:

09-08-2014, 05:02 PM	#281
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by MarkJerling I have it on very good authority that we won't see FF at this year's Photokina. I find that a pity. I feel it's time Ricoh / Pentax shows the Canikon buyer that there is another option out there in the more professional field, without having to go to the 645D/Z. Wonder how many we'll see jump ship! I'm interested in new lenses for my K-5 II but would like to see a K-50 replacement

09-08-2014, 05:58 PM	#284
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by MarkJerling LOL. No, I hope they sell many, many 645's! Hopefully, they'll sell so many that they'll think - heck - we can sell something with a bigger sensor. The question seems to be whether Ricoh are production constrained and 645Z production bumped FF plans out until next spring because they don't even have the facilities to assemble FF cameras available. Extending the story, FF lens engineering was supposedly bumped out to redo all these new 645 lenses we're seeing. Etc., etc. Orders in hand trump Unicorns every day. Maybe that's ALL a bunch of hooey but a few members have said that directly.

09-08-2014, 06:05 PM	#285
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Well it's much better to be production constrained, then to have warehouses full of depreciating inventory that is not selling so quickly....