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08-14-2014, 09:59 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
I don't think the 20-40mm has ever brought anybody to Pentax. As far as I'm concerned, that lens is yet another example of a bad business decision on Pentax's part. Not that the lens is without merit, but who in the world was asking for such a lens?

QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
I was, for one.
Noted. I, for one, am a little underwhelmed when one of the very few lenses that Pentax chooses to design and release in recent years is a 2x zoom that is neither particularly wide nor long, and is not very fast, and costs $1000. If that's what it takes to build a small lens, then I'll gladly take a larger lens.

08-14-2014, 10:20 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Noted. I, for one, am a little underwhelmed when one of the very few lenses that Pentax chooses to design and release in recent years is a 2x zoom that is neither particularly wide nor long, and is not very fast, and costs $1000. If that's what it takes to build a small lens, then I'll gladly take a larger lens.
The cost is in the details,
like the solid glass aspherical element,
as opposed to the hybrid you get in even the DA 15 Limited.

It's a lens for people who need the small size for traveling,
and who appreciate its style of rendering.

If you don't care about the rendering,
the DA 18-55 kit lens does pretty well.
08-14-2014, 11:25 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
It's a lens for people who need the small size for traveling,
and who appreciate its style of rendering.
I acknowledged in my first post that it is not a lens without merit, but it feels like you are wanting to debate on that very point which I already conceded at the very top.

I know that it's a good lens for certain people, but my original point is that it is probably on the fringes of market demand, and is at best a niche product given the price and the technical specifications. Pentax needs to release new products that get people excited, not products that leave people in the industry "scratching their heads", as the editors at Digital Camera Review said in their generally positive review of the 20-40mm.

So I hope owners of the 20-40mm don't take my remarks as an attack on the lens. It seems to be a fine lens, and if it's a good fit for your photography needs, then great. It just doesn't strike me as a wise use of the limited design and manufacturing resources at Pentax.
08-14-2014, 12:34 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
I know that it's a good lens for certain people, but my original point is that it is probably on the fringes of market demand, and is at best a niche product given the price and the technical specifications. Pentax needs to release new products that get people excited, not products that leave people in the industry "scratching their heads", as the editors at Digital Camera Review said in their generally positive review of the 20-40mm.

So I hope owners of the 20-40mm don't take my remarks as an attack on the lens. It seems to be a fine lens, and if it's a good fit for your photography needs, then great. It just doesn't strike me as a wise use of the limited design and manufacturing resources at Pentax.
I guess I have a different take on how the lens fits in to Pentax' marketing.

They do have the standard range covered with the 18-55 and 18-135 kit lenses,
as well as the DA* 16-50 (which does need a motor update, and which will probably get the HD treatment).

But a lens like the DA 20 - 40 helps them move a little further into the upmarket niche,
for photographers wanting to make more than mere record shots.

Of course, it doesn't check the technogeeks' boxes,
but fortunately Pentax isn't out to play that game.

08-14-2014, 12:41 PM   #35
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I wanted a Sigma 70mm macro, but no local store had one, so I bought a DFA 100mm instead. Can't say I regret it, but the Sigma is a nice lens by all reports. Too bad.
08-14-2014, 12:52 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
But Sigma was rumored to be coming out with a 135mm//1.8, so if that lens materializes and is offered in K-mount, I would probably lean that way. So hopefully Sigma will also be making some announcements at the show.
What is the chance that Sigma will offer new lenses like that in K-mount, I honestly wonder? The new Apsc designed ART 18-35mm/f1.8 was brought out in K-mount, undoubtedly because it makes sense offering a unique Apsc lens in a mount that features the best Apsc camera currently on the market. As for "cross-system" lenses like the 135/1.8, useable both on Apsc and on FF, I fear the motivation will be less for Sigma to include the K-mount. They might still do, but they surely wouldn't do it on philanthropic grounds.
Things might start to change when Pentax launches their illustre FF, but in the meantime Sigma might mostly discontinue their lenses in K-mount.

Chris
08-14-2014, 01:08 PM   #37
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and yet we thought the new Sigma 30mm f/1.4 Art would not be offered in K-mount, but was eventually released. So I'm hoping the same thing will happen to future Sigma lens releases...
08-14-2014, 01:23 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by seventysixersfan Quote
and yet we thought the new Sigma 30mm f/1.4 Art would not be offered in K-mount, but was eventually released. So I'm hoping the same thing will happen to future Sigma lens releases...
This lens is dedicated to APS-C ('DC' in Sigma's vocabulary), as is the 18-35mm f/1.8.

08-14-2014, 06:09 PM   #39
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I was choosing between the Sigma 70 and the DA 70 but then grabbed the latter here on PF, though I am very delighted with the results, I still think that this Sigma 70 "could be" a better choice since it is also a macro lens. (No need to buy that 100mm unless one wanted that WR feature)

Re Sigma's support to K-Mount I i don't think (though I am hoping) they will release FF covered lenses on K-mounts. (Yeah, bad news for us in terms of lens choices)
08-14-2014, 06:48 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Re Sigma's support to K-Mount I i don't think (though I am hoping) they will release FF covered lenses on K-mounts. (Yeah, bad news for us in terms of lens choices)
If that is going to be their policy in the future, then I'm grateful that they already released the 85mm/1.4 in K-mount. That lens is amazing!
08-14-2014, 06:55 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Whaa? I just sold the 180mm macro regretfully because I doubt I'll ever see another one (but couldn't afford to keep it), but am holding on to my Sigma 70, sharpest lens I've ever seen. Just a fantastic lens.
Since you've owned both could you tell me how the two macros compare to each other? I'm curious what made you decide to keep the 70mm macro and sell the 180mm.
08-14-2014, 07:13 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
I just sold the 180mm macro regretfully because I doubt I'll ever see another one (but couldn't afford to keep it), but am holding on to my Sigma 70, sharpest lens I've ever seen.
I basically have the same question as Mirton.

Did you find that the 70/2.8 is sharper than the 180/3.5? Does it have better bokeh?

I have the 70mm (and am very happy with it) and have been toying with the idea to get the 180mm, mainly because of the longer working distance, but I don't do macro that often anymore and the 180/3.5 would be a bit of a luxury item for me.

I really want the Pentax 200/4 macro and thought the Sigma 180/3.5 would be the next best thing.

P.S.: Too bad that Sigma is discontinuing the 70/2.8 EX macro. Great lens, indeed; Imaging-Resource uses it as their cross-brand reference lens to compare cameras with each other. I hope Sigma will offer a replacement in K-mount in the not too distant future.

Last edited by Class A; 08-14-2014 at 07:18 PM.
08-15-2014, 04:37 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
He also mentioned:
1) Price
2) Smaller Max Aperture
Yes and what sigma does lately? It extends it's Art lenses offering... replacing the more conventionnal lenses with it.

In the same range of DA20-40, sigma has 18-35. Both are expensive. The difference is apperture. Not price.

Sigma 85mm (not even Art) is as expensive as FA77, Sigma 50mm is more expensive than FA50 and DA50... Sigma 35mm Art is not as expensive as FA31, but it is still expensive, much bigger, and work on an easier focal lens. It is as expensive as FA43 and more expensive than DA35 ltd.... And of course the DA35 f/2.4...

Sigma specialize in high quality lenses because they think it is where money is. Pentax does the same but do not specialize on the same kind of high quality lenses. One might prefer small lenses, other wide apperture lenses. I agree. But the price is not really a problem of ltd when you look at other high quality lenses out there.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 08-15-2014 at 04:44 AM.
08-15-2014, 07:00 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mirton Quote
Since you've owned both could you tell me how the two macros compare to each other? I'm curious what made you decide to keep the 70mm macro and sell the 180mm.
I have both lenses in EOS mount. I did have the Sigma 70mm in K-mount and enjoyed it enough to replicate the experience when I changed platforms. I say that optically both are about the same. The 70mm may be a tad sharper.

They are different lenses with different applications. The subject-isolation capability of the 180mm is superb, even at relatively small apertures. The 70mm is better at capturing whole flowers and plants if you have the space to get closer physically.
Operationally, I find the 180mm to be faster to focus. The biggest flaw of the 70mm is it is slow to AF, but I usually manually focus on LiveView closeups (though the advanced macro AF capability of the 5DMK3 is challenging my habits), so it's more of a non-issue.

Both are not-light and not-small. I have taken the 70mm on multi-mile hikes. The 180mm requires a more serious commitment. It is very heavy and relatively large--about 40% larger at least than the 50-135mm. A tripod is required for my uses; a smaller Gorilla Pod used as a chest-supported tripod would suffice with the 70mm.

I prefer using the 70mm on a cropped sensor body and the 180mm on the 5DMK3. If you are considering adding a 24x36mm camera body (or if you already have one) I would suggest a 100-105mm macro lens instead of the 70mm or just get the 180mm.

M
08-15-2014, 07:19 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
I have both lenses in EOS mount. I did have the Sigma 70mm in K-mount and enjoyed it enough to replicate the experience when I changed platforms. I say that optically both are about the same. The 70mm may be a tad sharper.

They are different lenses with different applications. The subject-isolation capability of the 180mm is superb, even at relatively small apertures. The 70mm is better at capturing whole flowers and plants if you have the space to get closer physically.
Operationally, I find the 180mm to be faster to focus. The biggest flaw of the 70mm is it is slow to AF, but I usually manually focus on LiveView closeups (though the advanced macro AF capability of the 5DMK3 is challenging my habits), so it's more of a non-issue.

Both are not-light and not-small. I have taken the 70mm on multi-mile hikes. The 180mm requires a more serious commitment. It is very heavy and relatively large--about 40% larger at least than the 50-135mm. A tripod is required for my uses; a smaller Gorilla Pod used as a chest-supported tripod would suffice with the 70mm.

I prefer using the 70mm on a cropped sensor body and the 180mm on the 5DMK3. If you are considering adding a 24x36mm camera body (or if you already have one) I would suggest a 100-105mm macro lens instead of the 70mm or just get the 180mm.

M
Thank you for the detailed feedback-much obliged
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