Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-01-2014, 06:25 AM   #1606
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,311
QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
No I do not have any misconceptions about pixel size. I am not an expert but I do read what experts have to say. If pixel size was not a factor then I guess all full frame cameras would have the same pixel size as a point and shoot. What can hold more a 5 gallon pail or a 50 gallon barrel. Larger pixels can obtain more data to make the processing more accurate.
What can hold more, a 50 gallon barrel or 10 5 gallon pails?
I see two obstacles to increase pixel count to match compact's densities:
- processing requirement for amazingly huge resolutions (over 200MP)
- people having to trade "per-pixel sharpness" for oversampling.

10-01-2014, 07:33 AM   #1607
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris
Posts: 2,990
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What can hold more, a 50 gallon barrel or 10 5 gallon pails?
I see two obstacles to increase pixel count to match compact's densities:
- processing requirement for amazingly huge resolutions (over 200MP)
- people having to trade "per-pixel sharpness" for oversampling.
...the third and technically most difficult to solve being heat dissipation.
10-01-2014, 07:53 AM   #1608
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,213
I think it looks like a fine camera. Cost is a little high for launch, but probably will drop down pretty quickly. I would be surprised if they can't sell this camera for a profit at 500 dollars, but they'll sell it for whatever price they can get for it.

As to the features, if it has the K3 shake reduction, then it is better than the K5 and K5 II's SR. Adjustable AA filter isn't a big deal, but just more of an indication that it shares this part with the K3. More megapixels isn't a problem as long as dynamic range doesn't decrease. K3 really doesn't lose anything to the K50, even though it has "smaller pixels." Dynamic range is the same, high iso scores are the same. Only difference is that it has a little more resolution (and bigger files).

This camera isn't for me, but I don't have a problem if there are folks out there that don't care about sealing and grip and want a smaller camera size.
10-01-2014, 03:40 PM   #1609
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 254
Camera makers have tried oddball designs over the years (Olympus another one who did this) it mostly fails and they go back to more traditional designs oddball is dangerous and alienates many buyers it's a camera they don't look that exciting and never will. The only maker who could get away with a minimal odd design is Apple, that's about it though

10-01-2014, 04:38 PM   #1610
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 349
Camera enthusiasts are an odd bunch too. The K-S1 is a good looking camera that is really refreshing compared to the typical cannikons in that price range. If it doesnt look like a traditional slr or rangefinder camera reviewers and enthusiasts complain about the looks. Maybe new dslr users are not quite as anal.
10-01-2014, 06:17 PM   #1611
Pentaxian
dcshooter's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Washington DC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,595
For SLR, maybe, but back when P+S digitals were still relevant, many of the most successful deviated from traditional P+S designs in often radical ways (e.g. colorful bodies, ditching a viewfinder, tiny bodies, foldable/twistable designs, etc.). The fact that you don't see such designs anymore has more to do with the fact that the P+S market was swallowed up by smartphones than any broad commercial antipathy toward novel designs. Even the "ergonomic" SLR was a big departure from the 80's "traditional" look, which itself has become the new radical chic for many manufacturers.


QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Camera makers have tried oddball designs over the years (Olympus another one who did this) it mostly fails and they go back to more traditional designs oddball is dangerous and alienates many buyers it's a camera they don't look that exciting and never will. The only maker who could get away with a minimal odd design is Apple, that's about it though


---------- Post added 10-01-14 at 07:11 PM ----------

Well, I just showed my girlfriend, who has very little interest in photography, a pic of the KS-1 in its various colors, and she said exactly 3 things about it:

1) It's cute.
2) Girls will like this.
3) Japanese people will like this (she said this unprompted, with no knowledge that Pentax is a primarily Japanese brand)

Considering that she has absolutely no clue about the conversations that go on on this board, and she's pretty in tune with Japanese culture, I think this is pretty good anecdotal evidence that Ricoh is probably hitting the targets it is going for with this camera, i.e. casual shooters, women, and Japanese consumers. I also asked her what she thought about the price, and she said that it was probably a bit more than she would want to pay for a camera, but if it were a couple hundred bucks less, it would certainly be something she might be interested in "for vacation or family photos." Bear in mind that she has no clue about the photogrpahy market, or that she is "supposed" to want a Canon or Nikon. Also, incidentally, she had no opinion either way about the LEDs.
10-01-2014, 07:19 PM   #1612
Pentaxian
PiDicus Rex's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,126
QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote But,... it doesn't bend in your pocket, and the latest firmware isn't generating recalls and hate mail. That would be like saying it doesn't survive underwater or in an oven, and firmware is not upgradable.
<sighs> Do I really need to break out the Foghorn Leghorn impersonation every time I use sarcasm ?

---------- Post added 02-10-14 at 12:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
1) It's cute.
2) Girls will like this.
3) Japanese people will like this (she said this unprompted, with no knowledge that Pentax is a primarily Japanese brand)
So, it'll hit the target market, and bring more buyers to the brand, which will mean more funds available to Pentax / Ricoh for developing other products.

Why do you all think Canon sell the Ixus range? It's not to make the best cameras, it's to SELL cameras to the widest audience.
(We'll leave off arguing why the eos range are far from 'the best',..)

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 10-01-2014 at 07:32 PM.
10-01-2014, 11:46 PM   #1613
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,011
QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
and she said that it was probably a bit more than she would want to pay for a camera, but if it were a couple hundred bucks less, it would certainly be something she might be interested in
Yes, I hope it's not a repeat of the much-maligned K-01, PDR - good for what it was, but so different it should not have been given the conventional pricing strategy.

It should have launched at the prices it was to sell for a year later.

10-01-2014, 11:52 PM   #1614
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 254
QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
<sighs> Do I really need to break out the Foghorn Leghorn impersonation every time I use sarcasm ?

---------- Post added 02-10-14 at 12:32 PM ----------



So, it'll hit the target market, and bring more buyers to the brand, which will mean more funds available to Pentax / Ricoh for developing other products.

Why do you all think Canon sell the Ixus range? It's not to make the best cameras, it's to SELL cameras to the widest audience.
(We'll leave off arguing why the eos range are far from 'the best',..)


Not really the moment someone says it's "cute" means you've lost over half your potential buyers straight away (ie male)
It doesn't work never has and never will bling esp does not work on cameras and the LED's are a gimmick but no half serious shooter would be seen dead with that...
10-02-2014, 12:10 AM   #1615
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,011
QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Not really the moment someone says it's "cute" means you've lost over half your potential buyers straight away
Yeah, that phrase can be a kiss of death in reviews.

A codeword, like a real estate agent's "renovators' dream".
10-02-2014, 04:57 AM   #1616
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2012
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,728
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yes, I hope it's not a repeat of the much-maligned K-01, PDR - good for what it was, but so different it should not have been given the conventional pricing strategy.

It should have launched at the prices it was to sell for a year later
.
And if I worked for Ricoh, my biggest concern is a mis-priced product (K-S1). Can they sell some on looks? Sure, they likely will, but everyone knows that the most important property of just about anything for sale is listed on the price tag. Ricoh is running a risk that the reputation of the camera will be negative simply because of cost. Regardless of when and by how much the price ultimately falls, the reputation generally remains. Ricoh... why not price the camera now where you know will be before long and generate some real buzz for it? You won't generate it later as proven by the K-01.
10-02-2014, 05:15 AM   #1617
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 3,068
That's a good point.
Same big mistake was made with Pentax Q btw... until Q-7 and now Q-S1 that had a reasonnable selling prices at launch.
10-02-2014, 06:12 AM   #1618
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Montréal QC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,824
If they keep hammering that their advantage, for retailers, is that they are high-margin even though they are not high-volume, then we're likely to keep seeing this strategy of launch prices that are... err... optimistic... I mean, you really need to value weight/looks in order to pick a K-S1 at $750 over the more capable K-3 with a ton of goodies for $1k... But by Xmas, I think this price comparison will have moved.
10-02-2014, 06:19 AM   #1619
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,423
It isn't designed, marketed or priced to sell in the USA. I suspect they know it, they know they're not getting in Costco and BestBuy - and they just don't care.

If the product plan required USA volume the pricing strategy would be different.*


* If you want to pay less than MAP price, CALL one of the big retailers and ask. MAP is an advertised guideline.
10-02-2014, 06:24 AM   #1620
Pentaxian
dcshooter's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Washington DC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,595
The point is, this camera is not aimed at "serious shooters." It's aimed at casual shooters who want some SLR capability with personality. This kind of consumer tends to never buy anything other than the kit lens. Wise decision or not, this explains the high launch price, since the margins need to be made up somewhere. And "cute" certainly isn't the kiss of death for males in the Japanese market, who are much less sexist when it comes to designs like this.

Sniff all you want, but you (a presumably male shooter who wants a big, clunky, expensive, and black feature laden camera) simply are not the target demo for this model. Believe it or not, the "serious shooter" market is vanishingly small compared to the casual market. Do you really think Canon, for example, makes more money selling 5DIIIs than they do their crap entry level bodies lining the shelves at Best Buy and the like?

Ricoh has a camera for you, and it's called the K-3. Should BMW stop making Mini Coopers (a cute and quirky but high quality auto with decent but not top-end performance), since they have several more "serious" models that appeal to Western men interested in horsepower? Of course not. Should VW stop making Beatles since they also have several Audi sports models? Of course not - they are two of the most popular models made by their respective manufacturers.


QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Not really the moment someone says it's "cute" means you've lost over half your potential buyers straight away (ie male)
It doesn't work never has and never will bling esp does not work on cameras and the LED's are a gimmick but no half serious shooter would be seen dead with that...

Last edited by dcshooter; 10-02-2014 at 06:42 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, camera, care, colour, design, ff, flash, format, iso, k-01, k-3, k3, kit, kit lens, leds, lens, level, look, medium, pentax, pentax k-s1, pentax news, pentax rumors, performance, price, scheme, steve, value
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some Thoughts on the K-01 and Mirrorless From Pentax Biro Pentax Mirrorless Cameras 108 06-25-2014 03:20 PM
Mirrorless K-Mount Camera Joshua A Photographic Industry and Professionals 12 08-22-2013 04:28 AM
K-mount mirrorless....FF RonHendriks1966 Pentax Full Frame 13 05-28-2013 03:13 PM
Waiting on my first mirrorless: K-01! Penta Welcomes and Introductions 2 01-30-2013 05:49 AM
New Pentax: K-5, K-r and Mirrorless models coming JohnBee Pentax News and Rumors 32 08-08-2010 01:57 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:19 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top