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10-02-2014, 06:29 AM   #1621
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
stop making Beatles
The beatles stopped in ~1970 or so.

10-02-2014, 06:40 AM   #1622
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Ha! I must have music on the brain. I did hear "I Am the Walrus" this morning. And there was the recent "re-release" of that "model."

Delight for collectors as Beatles release new album to defy EU copyright law - News - Music - The Independent

Of course, as long as the albums don't say "Ricoh" ... er, "Jackson" on the back, long-time fans should be mollified.

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/how-michael...-music-empire/

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The beatles stopped in ~1970 or so.
10-02-2014, 08:08 AM   #1623
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Do you really think Canon, for example, makes more money selling 5DIIIs than they do their crap entry level bodies lining the shelves at Best Buy and the like?
Why do those crap entry level Canons sell so well? Because you can get one with a lens for 200-300 dollars cheaper.

The K-S1 is stuck in no man's land when it comes to pricing. Too expensive for non-"serious shooters", and serious shooters are willing to pay $250 more for a more robust body with WR, dual control wheels, and higher resolution.
That is why the K-30/K-50 was so sweet. It filled that "no-man's land" price point with a camera that was more feature rich than any of the competitors. And it also came in the various color combos that could appeal to that crowd, so they were getting both sides.
10-02-2014, 08:20 AM   #1624
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The K30 MSRP at intro was $849 for the body only. The K50, which was merely a cosmetic refresh, was $699 . The launch MSRP for K-S1 is $749, less than the K-30, and only 50 bucks more than the K-50.

It's rather obtuse to criticize Pentax for opening at the price they are, when it is completely in line with previous generations and the price will obviously trend downward in the months to come, just like those models did. That's like saying "Why would anyone buy the K-30, when they can get a K-r for hundreds of dollars less?" They are obviously trying to make a good margin on early adopters, then lower it to its natural market price, as has worked for them before.

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Why do those crap entry level Canons sell so well? Because you can get one with a lens for 200-300 dollars cheaper.

The K-S1 is stuck in no man's land when it comes to pricing. Too expensive for non-"serious shooters", and serious shooters are willing to pay $250 more for a more robust body with WR, dual control wheels, and higher resolution.
That is why the K-30/K-50 was so sweet. It filled that "no-man's land" price point with a camera that was more feature rich than any of the competitors. And it also came in the various color combos that could appeal to that crowd, so they were getting both sides.


10-02-2014, 08:25 AM   #1625
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
The K30 MSRP at intro was $849 for the body only. The K50, which was merely a cosmetic refresh, was $699 . The launch MSRP for K-S1 is $749, less than the K-30, and only 50 bucks more than the K-50.

It's rather obtuse to criticize Pentax for opening at the price they are, when it is completely in line with previous generations and the price will obviously trend downward in the months to come, just like those models did. That's like saying "Why would anyone buy the K-30, when they can get a K-r for hundreds of dollars less?" They are obviously trying to make a good margin on early adopters, then lower it to its natural market price, as has worked for them before.
As has worked for them before?? Mid-single digit marketshare is not what exactly what I would call, "working".
The $850 is more in line with realistic release pricing IMHO because of the features I listed in my previous post...dual wheels, WR and class leading (during it's time) sensor. This is a neutered model, without the neutered price tag.
10-02-2014, 08:26 AM   #1626
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
That is why the K-30/K-50 was so sweet. It filled that "no-man's land" price point with a camera that was more feature rich than any of the competitors. And it also came in the various color combos that could appeal to that crowd, so they were getting both sides.
The K-30 was introduced June, 2012 at $899 with the kit zoom.

The K-50, which was essentially a K-30 in a new wrapper, debuted at $779 with kit zoom one year later.

The K-S1 launched at $799 with kit zoom, $100 less than the K-30, $20 more than the K-50 - but new sensor, new image processor, new AF, new IBIS, etc

And the K-50 is still out there for discriminating USA buyers.
.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-02-2014 at 08:35 AM.
10-02-2014, 08:34 AM   #1627
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
As has worked for them before?? Mid-single digit marketshare is not what exactly what I would call, "working".
Why? They're making money. They don't want 20% market share. They can't afford 20% market share.

Adding: Is Subaru a failure?

Since GM sold their 20-ish% stake to Toyota and the public Subaru has grown its global market share from 0.8% to -- 2.025%

Last edited by monochrome; 10-02-2014 at 08:44 AM.
10-02-2014, 08:37 AM   #1628
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The K-30 was introduced June, 2012 at $899 with the kit zoom.

The K-50, which was essentially a K-30 in a new wrapper, debuted at $779 with kit zoom one year later.

The K-S1 launched at $799 with kit zoom, $100 less than the K-30, $20 more than the K-50 - but new sensor, new image processor, new AF, new IBIS, etc

.
It isn't a new sensor, nor new image processor, nor AF, nor IBIS...the last 3 all came from the K-3.
The 20MB sensor has been on other cameras.
For the K-S1, they ditched WR and dual wheels (2 items which before this camera, Pentaxians would bring up any chance they could as differentiators between Canikon as how Pentax entry/mid level cameras are better).

10-02-2014, 08:42 AM   #1629
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Pentaxians would bring up any chance they could as differentiators between Canikon as how Pentax entry/mid level cameras are better).
They're all 4 newly applied to the Pentax mid-range camera.

This camera isn't targeting Pentaxians. We have the K-50 for the things you're lamenting.
10-02-2014, 08:52 AM   #1630
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
This camera isn't targeting Pentaxians. We have the K-50 for the things you're lamenting.
That being the case...who are they targeting? Is someone that has never touched a DSLR going to spend $750 one one (or $650 where this thing will probably drop to in a few months) ?
In my opinion (i know, they are like a certain cavitiy), they probably will not. They will go for the cheapo Rebel....for the simple fact that it is cheap.
10-02-2014, 08:57 AM   #1631
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
It isn't a new sensor, nor new image processor, nor AF, nor IBIS...the last 3 all came from the K-3.
The 20MB sensor has been on other cameras.
For the K-S1, they ditched WR and dual wheels (2 items which before this camera, Pentaxians would bring up any chance they could as differentiators between Canikon as how Pentax entry/mid level cameras are better).
The sensor is new (to Pentax). The image processor is new - PRIME MII, not the K-3's Prime III.
10-02-2014, 09:03 AM   #1632
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The sensor is new (to Pentax). The image processor is new - PRIME MII, not the K-3's Prime III.
The sensor is new to Pentax....and? Bear in mind that is the same sensor that is used in the cheap a3000.
Ok, a new image processor....is that what enables it to tell how many faces are in focus? If that's all it does, I would rather dump it, use whatever is in the K-3 and save $50.
10-02-2014, 09:06 AM   #1633
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
That being the case...who are they targeting? Is someone that has never touched a DSLR going to spend $750 one one (or $650 where this thing will probably drop to in a few months) ?
In my opinion (i know, they are like a certain cavitiy), they probably will not. They will go for the cheapo Rebel....for the simple fact that it is cheap.
What follows isn't intended to be obnoxious or jerky, but I believe it.

If the objections you raise are shared by the majority of US dSLR users then I suspect Ricoh is doing precisely what they want to do with the K-S1. I originally predicted - Day 1, Post 1 - it wouldn't sell many in the USA and EU. Our marketing / decision / consumption process differs from the rest of the world. Ricoh doesn't have the business model to promote new products and build a following for 'new' ideas here. A major global brokerage firm wrote last year Ricoh would take an 8 to 12 fiscal quarter earnings growth rate reduction (the entire company) if they attempted to build digital cameras into a global major brand quickly.

The K-30 cost more money with older technology. The K-50 cost the same with older technology. If we want dual wheels and WR instead of a rear-facing interface and LED's - we know what to do. The fact that it doesn't make sense to us is, in a counter-intuitive way, an argument that they might be doing something right with the K-S1. They're targeting anyone who isn't us.
10-02-2014, 09:09 AM   #1634
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What follows isn't intended to be obnoxious or jerky, but I believe it.

If the objections you raise are shared by the majority of US dSLR users then I suspect Ricoh is doing precisely what they want to do with the K-S1. I originally predicted - Day 1, Post 1 - it wouldn't sell many in the USA and EU. Our marketing / decision / consumption process differs from the rest of the world. Ricoh doesn't have the business model to promote new products and build a following for 'new' ideas here. A major global brokerage firm wrote last year Ricoh would take an 8 to 12 fiscal quarter earnings growth rate reduction (the entire company) if they attempted to build digital cameras into a global major brand quickly.

The fact that it doesn't make sense to us is, in a counter-intuitive way, an argument that they might be doing something right with the K-S1.
What you write may be true...but that being the case, then it should come as no surprise that people in the US and EU would scoff at it.
10-02-2014, 09:37 AM   #1635
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Nothing to scoff at. I'm not in the market for the K-S1 but as a very small DSLR with a great sensor, processor and viewfinder, I find nothing to scoff at.

I might even get one down the road, after tasting with the K-r what a pleasure it is to have a small DSLR.
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