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10-02-2014, 11:45 AM   #1651
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Even their business machines don't have a large presence in the U.S.
Really?

"IKON Office Solutions was a company based in Malvern, Pennsylvania.[1] It was the world's largest independent provider of document management systems and services until it was purchased by manufacturer Ricoh in 2008."

10-02-2014, 11:56 AM   #1652
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And just to pile on:
RICOH RANKS NUMBER ONE IN U.S. COPIER MARKET


QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Really?

"IKON Office Solutions was a company based in Malvern, Pennsylvania.[1] It was the world's largest independent provider of document management systems and services until it was purchased by manufacturer Ricoh in 2008."
10-02-2014, 12:01 PM - 2 Likes   #1653
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Yes, we have the K-3 and 645Z (which is such a luxury most people would have to choose between paying their rent for half a year an buying one), but who knows how often those will get a refresh. They may be on the same timeline as Canon with their 7D. Who knows, because they don't communicate with their customers, at least with their English speaking ones. The only communication we get is through Executives and I trust executives and marketing folks as far as I can throw them.
K-3 - 24-36 month product cycle. 645Z 48-60 month product cycle. Mid-range 18-30 month product cycle. Q-x - 12-18 month product cycle. X-Sx product cycle at the shorter end - I believe each model is a one-off with a single planned production run.

Lenses - 10-year product life with several production runs, possibly with a slight update each new run. Expect lens prices to be discouragingly high. If you think MAP pricing caused a storm, wait until the HD D-FA Pro 1:2.8 70~210mm DC (IF) is released.

Executive and marketing people are just people who studied a process in a vacuum for a few years. All of their decisions are risk-based rather than return-optimized. They are risk-averse by education. Their job is to efficiently and optimally allocate scarce capital in a complex world. We are product-centric. They are product agnostic.

You and I are not real. We are outliers. Outliers are risky. They statistically smooth outliers away so that they can make one decision, apply their entire corporate system of capital and people to that decision, and make profit (with a high degree of certainty that profit will ensue).

People with risk appetite are small businesses who want to get large quickly. If they lose they don't lose much. If they win, they win big. Once they get big they can't afford to lose - no one wants to lose big - so they morph into risk-averse businesses and hire MBA's from Harvard and Paris to manage risk.

Pentax may be small but Ricoh is big.
10-02-2014, 12:22 PM   #1654
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
If you want to break out old marketing materials from a company's own website here is a newer one than the one you quoted:
http://usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/html/market_share/Canon_2013_MktShare_Brochure.pdf

But regardless i probably will never buy a copier...but I will buy a camera.
And it will be harder and harder to justify buying a Pentax when even Pentax supports admit that their products are very much geard toward asian consumers.

10-02-2014, 12:24 PM   #1655
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cali92rs - According to your signature you don't even use digital cameras. What are you trying to accomplish here?
10-02-2014, 12:29 PM   #1656
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The K-30 was introduced June, 2012 at $899 with the kit zoom.

The K-50, which was essentially a K-30 in a new wrapper, debuted at $779 with kit zoom one year later.

The K-S1 launched at $799 with kit zoom, $100 less than the K-30, $20 more than the K-50 - but new sensor, new image processor, new AF, new IBIS, etc
In the way our economy is working now I think that they should start lower, $699 at max. The current startprice overhere for 699 euro is to hi I think. If they wanted to put the camera in that pricerange they shoukld have put some more futures from the K-3 inside (metering and AF).
10-02-2014, 12:35 PM   #1657
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
cali92rs - According to your signature you don't even use digital cameras. What are you trying to accomplish here?
I update my signature once every other year.
What am i trying to accomplish?
Oh you know, solve world hunger, end wars and poverty etc.

Or just kill time and talk about cameras. And yourself? Here to defend a giant corporation that doesn't need our help?
10-02-2014, 12:42 PM - 1 Like   #1658
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I update my signature once every other year.
What am i trying to accomplish?
Oh you know, solve world hunger, end wars and poverty etc.

Or just kill time and talk about cameras. And yourself? Here to defend a giant corporation that doesn't need our help?
What does class warfare have to do with anything?

I'm here obviously wasting my time thinking this is a nice forum for people who like to shoot with Pentax cameras and share their love for photography.

10-02-2014, 12:43 PM   #1659
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Whatever man, the press release shows that according to an indpendent analyst (Gartner), Ricoh had, as of 2011, the largest combined copier share of any manufacturer in the US, and the very reference you provided shows that they were a close second in 2013, with 20+% of the US market! And this is according to the same analyst!

Either way, it makes your comment that "their business machines don't have a large presence in the U.S." look more than a little foolish.

And on second glance, that Canon release is just cherry picked to A4 format copiers (rather than total copier sales as in the Ricoh Release) anyway....

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
If you want to break out old marketing materials from a company's own website here is a newer one than the one you quoted:
http://usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/html/market_share/Canon_2013_MktShare_Brochure.pdf

But regardless i probably will never buy a copier...but I will buy a camera.
And it will be harder and harder to justify buying a Pentax when even Pentax supports admit that their products are very much geard toward asian consumers.

Last edited by dcshooter; 10-02-2014 at 12:50 PM.
10-02-2014, 12:56 PM   #1660
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
What does class warfare have to do with anything?

I'm here obviously wasting my time thinking this is a nice forum for people who like to shoot with Pentax cameras and share their love for photography.
The "ending world hunger" part was sarcasm.

I like Pentax, and I like the people here...that does not mean I agree with the direction Ricoh is taking.

---------- Post added 10-02-14 at 01:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Either way, it makes your comment that "their business machines don't have a large presence in the U.S." look more than a little foolish.
Congrats, you win a gold star...you managed to debunk one throwaway sentence which I already mentioned wasn't a big deal.
A Ricoh copier can be in every office in America, that does not mean that you can walk into any Camera store, Target, Best Buy etc and actually buy a Pentax camera. Or if I turn on a T.V or read a newspaper that I will find an advertisement for a Pentax camera.
10-02-2014, 01:28 PM   #1661
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
that does not mean that you can walk into any Camera store, Target, Best Buy etc and actually buy a Pentax camera. Or if I turn on a T.V or read a newspaper that I will find an advertisement for a Pentax camera.
Uhmmm - we already have two or three camera companies that meet that need. Do we really need another?* There are 2.5MM people in the St. Louis Metro area - not much by most standards. There are two Subaru dealers here. Thankfully one is them minutes from my house - but if I lived in the suburbs where all the soccer moms live it would be 45 minutes just to see one, much less buy it or to get dealer service.

I don't shake my fist at Fuji Heavy Industries every time I see the brand sales rankings.



*Right now they can't do it whether we need another or not.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-02-2014 at 01:33 PM.
10-02-2014, 01:30 PM   #1662
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The "ending world hunger" part was sarcasm.

I like Pentax, and I like the people here...that does not mean I agree with the direction Ricoh is taking.

---------- Post added 10-02-14 at 01:04 PM ----------



Congrats, you win a gold star...you managed to debunk one throwaway sentence which I already mentioned wasn't a big deal.
A Ricoh copier can be in every office in America, that does not mean that you can walk into any Camera store, Target, Best Buy etc and actually buy a Pentax camera. Or if I turn on a T.V or read a newspaper that I will find an advertisement for a Pentax camera.
Attention seeker. You just keep changing your story to throw stones at Pentax, and when proven wrong, say "it's not a big deal anyway". That, sir, is the definition of a troll.

We get it, you like your XT-1 better than the K-5IIs that you sold. Wait, that things costs more than a K-3? And it doesn't even have a mirror?? And it's only 16MP??? What a ripoff.
10-02-2014, 01:46 PM   #1663
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Attention seeker. You just keep changing your story to throw stones at Pentax, and when proven wrong, say "it's not a big deal anyway". That, sir, is the definition of a troll.

We get it, you like your XT-1 better than the K-5IIs that you sold. Wait, that things costs more than a K-3? And it doesn't even have a mirror?? And it's only 16MP??? What a ripoff.
Attention seeker?? You can ignore me if you would like...really doesn't matter to me. Besides the whole copier thing, where was I wrong?

I don't think the X-T1 is a better camera than the K-5iis, and never said so. I like Fuji lenses, but there are plenty of things I dislike about Fuji.
The difference is, I don't care if you trash Fuji, Pentax, Chevy, Samsung or any other brand I happen to own.
Instead of calling others trolls, maybe you should ask yourself if it is worth getting upset over someone disparaging a corporation that has never sent you a penny for sticking up for them.
10-02-2014, 01:48 PM   #1664
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I'm not defending Ricoh. I don't think anyone here is.

I'm just sick of that negativity and hijacking of the thread.
10-02-2014, 03:51 PM   #1665
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I really don't get this Asian versus Western thing. We've even had people on here saying that 28mm is an "Asian" focal length. People use their cameras in more or less the same way, regardless of where they are.

What surprises me is that there is such a lack of interest in photography in the USA in particular. The CIPA figures over the last 10 or so years show that US market going down from about 38% to about 24%, with Asia picking up the slack and Europe more or less stable (as proportions). If it is really true that there's no longer a market for $800 DSLRs in the USA, is it really worth Ricoh or anyone else expending much effort on it, because it's a relatively expensive place to put resources into. It's just a place to dump old stock.

I can only speak for Japan, but there is still a big market for entry DSLRs here. A lot of this is young couples when they have a kid. They'll just go into the shop and buy the camera that appeals to them. I think this is where the K-S1 will pick up sales. Pricing things to low in Japan will lead to suspicion that there is something wrong with the product. There's a reason why the K-500 was never introduced here.

And I think you'll see a cheaper model with K-3 tech soon. The K-50 is due for renewal and Ricoh made clear that the K-S1 is not part of the same line of products.

Last edited by JPT; 10-02-2014 at 04:09 PM.
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