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08-26-2014, 05:09 PM   #736
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If they're abandoning K-mount and native backward compatibility gor the FF camera (which would be odd considering K-mount is already a FF mount) why would they bother with screwdrive? Wouldn't they just pass the electrical impulses through and limit the adapter to focus motor lenses, and make all their new FF lenses SDM (or whatever the replacement technology is)?

So many of the the DA* lenses become HD DA Pro and the rest are consigned to APSc bodies.

08-26-2014, 05:14 PM   #737
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If they're abandoning K-mount and native backward compatibility gor the FF camera (which would be odd considering K-mount is already a FF mount) why would they bother with screwdrive? ..
They are not abandoning anything. It just takes them forever to do anything, that's all.
08-26-2014, 05:19 PM   #738
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
However, are you saying an adapter is calculated to match the distance to the sensor and resolve this issue? I thought this was a physical property more than one of electronics.. but if they can counter that then ok. Still I don't see why they wouldn't offer a lens mount that had the K and new mount electronics since the supposedly new 'A' mount would be FF anyways. Plus having to route the screw drive through the adapter or potentially losing screwdrive support.
Yes, an adapter has to mount the lens at its designed register distance/flange focal distance for the lens to work as designed (e.g., macro tubes may get you closer focus, but the lens can no longer focus to infinity). The adapter has to be as long as the K-mount register distance (45.46mm) minus the new mount register distance, unless it has some internal optics like a speed booster.

In addition, most of the KAF pins are there to communicate the smallest and largest apertures of the lens (NOT the current aperture setting, mind you- just the largest and smallest it is capable of). A mechanical linkage opens and closes the aperture, based on how far the camera thinks it should move the arm. That's a 1980s way of doing things - most new mounts communicate digitally between the camera and lens, and the lens does the work. So do you force the new A mount to still use an 'old' linkage method, or do you put the servo motor and mechanical bits in the adapter? Do you keep the screwdrive motor in the camera body, or put that in the adapter, too? (Sony did just that for the non-motored-lens-Alpha-to-E-mount adapter.)

Backward compatibility is a great selling point, but how much size/weight/cost/complexity can you afford to add to a camera body that might not ever mount a K-mount lens (especially if the whole point is to make it smaller/cheaper)?

Last edited by THoog; 08-26-2014 at 05:26 PM.
08-26-2014, 05:19 PM   #739
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
They are not abandoning anything. It just takes them forever to do anything, that's all.
I'm referring to the emerging conversation of an adaptered 'A' mount that seems to have returned from the grave. As if a tiny company like Pentax can support 4 mounts.


08-26-2014, 05:21 PM   #740
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I'm referring to the emerging conversation of an adaptered 'A' mount that seems to have returned from the grave. As if a tiny company like Pentax can support 4 mounts.
Some would say they can't support 3.
08-26-2014, 05:23 PM   #741
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The new 4th mount is dooooooooomed!
08-26-2014, 05:29 PM   #742
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Some would say they can't support 3.
Well, they can't. Ideally it should be just one; like Fuji or Olympus do.
2 is too much already. Canon and Nikon barely play with that idea.
3 is over the top by any definition as Ricoh Imaging is so small and have no resources to dedicate to the K mount and Q when they work on 645 stuff.
Add a 4th and you have real trouble.

Cameras alone are not a problem so much as is the problem of lenses. Even if they find a way to share cost for camera manufacture and design across 4 mounts, lenses will suffer and all systems will never look comprehensive, but scattered all over the place. Quality will suffer too; instead of making two great lenses for K mount alone, or one good lens for K and one good for Q mount each year, the increased cost for 4 mounts will make them make compromised lenses for all 4 and will come every other year.

A big part of endless wait for them to do anything (as we see it) is because they have 3 freakin' mounts!

Last edited by Uluru; 08-26-2014 at 05:35 PM.
08-26-2014, 05:42 PM   #743
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If they're abandoning K-mount and native backward compatibility gor the FF camera (which would be odd considering K-mount is already a FF mount) why would they bother with screwdrive? Wouldn't they just pass the electrical impulses through and limit the adapter to focus motor lenses, and make all their new FF lenses SDM (or whatever the replacement technology is)?

So many of the the DA* lenses become HD DA Pro and the rest are consigned to APSc bodies.

I was thinking more along the lines of why would they abandon all of the K mount screwdrive lenses... one of the finer selling points (imo) for K mount and ultimately the Pentax system was the backwards compatibility and low cost of many of those lenses (and the system as a whole).

What you are saying here makes sense if they were abandoning K mount.. I mean then screw drive support matters not. But if this new mount came out then I couldn't see them saying "sorry all of your screw drive lenses are now manual only have a nice day" with regard to the newer SLR cameras they develop.

If they incorporated it into an adapter then perhaps.. but you still lose some of the behaviors of those lenses with extra distance (unless the new camera system is designed with that in mind and the flange distance with the adapter is the same as current K mount bodies).

Again it makes no sense to me.. I think if we do see a FF body soon it would still be K mount.

08-26-2014, 06:13 PM   #744
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When you want to put a K mount lens on a Q mount camera, the so called registration distance (between mount and sensor) is different. K-mount is longer, about 45mm or something like this (I don't remember the exact figures). While the Q mount has a much shorter distance. The adapter is build to fill this gap.

If an FF mirrorless camera will be build, there are two posibilities. One, to keep the K mount, but without the mirror, the distance from this mount to the sensor will be unjustified, because there is no mirror, and the camera will be bigger than necessary. The second is to make a new mount, with a much shorter registration distance. We can call it A mount, or whatever... But if we want to use K mount lenses on this new camera, we need the following. The A mount must have electrical contacts for focusing, and most probably, for aperture. And an adapter with electrical contacts to the camera side, internal motors for focus and aperture, and traditional lever to the lens side, K mount. It is doable, but not cheap.

Need to say that an FF mirrorless camera will need a number of new lenses? Even a FF K mount camera will need a lot. And I think that this is (or was) one of the reasons for this FF delay.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 08-26-2014 at 06:25 PM.
08-26-2014, 06:29 PM - 1 Like   #745
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
If an FF mirrorless camera will be build, there are two posibilities. One, to keep the K mount, but without the mirror, the distance from this mount to the sensor will be unjustified, because there is no mirror, and the camera will be bigger than necessary. The second is to make a new mount, with a much shorter registration distance. We can call it A mount, or whatever... But if we want to use K mount lenses on this new camera, we need the following. The A mount must have electrical contacts for focusing, and most probably, for aperture. And an adapter with electrical contacts to the camera side, internal motors for focus and aperture, and traditional lever to the lens side, K mount. It is doable, but not cheap.
Logic then says there won't be a FF camera mirrorless camera. Since Pentax has repeatedly said 1) they are developing a FF camera, 2) there is room for a third full-line camera company and it will be Pentax, 3) they are committed to the three existing mounts, then logically they are developing a FF K-mount dSLR. A 4th mount with a FF adapter seems unlikely.

None of which has anything to do with the K-S1.
08-26-2014, 06:37 PM   #746
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4 mounts is to much for a firm in the first 500 in the world? I don't think so. Maybe time for developing new lenses is to short. I can agree with this. But money cannot be an issue at this level. Can Ricoh spend a lot of millions to buy Pentax to loose face, and shares value? IMO, no chance.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 08-26-2014 at 06:44 PM.
08-26-2014, 07:21 PM   #747
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
4 mounts is to much for a firm in the first 500 in the world? I don't think so. Maybe time for developing new lenses is to short. I can agree with this. But money cannot be an issue at this level. Can Ricoh spend a lot of millions to buy Pentax to loose face, and shares value? IMO, no chance.
What 4 mounts can solve that 3 mounts cannot?
We are discussing serious decision-making problems then, done in 2011 especially when Pentax was bought, when the Q mount was announced. That was 3rd and many have hoped it is the last. But if a company needs 4, or 5 or 6 mounts to do a comprehensive job in imaging, then I sincerely doubt in their ability to think.
08-26-2014, 07:39 PM   #748
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
What 4 mounts can solve that 3 mounts cannot?
We are discussing serious decision-making problems then, done in 2011 especially when Pentax was bought, when the Q mount was announced. That was 3rd and many have hoped it is the last. But if a company needs 4, or 5 or 6 mounts to do a comprehensive job in imaging, then I sincerely doubt in their ability to think.
I don't think that Pentax needs another new mount. And I think that today, mirrorless technology is not mature enough to really support a professional camera. And a FF camera is mostly a professional one. Maybe in two years from now, they will mach the DSLR.

I was just responding to some questions.
08-26-2014, 08:09 PM   #749
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I don't think that Pentax needs another new mount. And I think that today, mirrorless technology is not mature enough to really support a professional camera. And a FF camera is mostly a professional one. Maybe in two years from now, they will mach the DSLR.

I was just responding to some questions.
There are professionals out there who are using the X-T1 and maybe even some using the A7.
08-26-2014, 08:51 PM   #750
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Well, they can't. Ideally it should be just one; like Fuji or Olympus do.
2 is too much already. Canon and Nikon barely play with that idea.
3 is over the top by any definition as Ricoh Imaging is so small and have no resources to dedicate to the K mount and Q when they work on 645 stuff.
Add a 4th and you have real trouble.

Cameras alone are not a problem so much as is the problem of lenses. Even if they find a way to share cost for camera manufacture and design across 4 mounts, lenses will suffer and all systems will never look comprehensive, but scattered all over the place. Quality will suffer too; instead of making two great lenses for K mount alone, or one good lens for K and one good for Q mount each year, the increased cost for 4 mounts will make them make compromised lenses for all 4 and will come every other year.

A big part of endless wait for them to do anything (as we see it) is because they have 3 freakin' mounts!
I guess your implication here is that they should reduce the number of mounts to focus on the most promising mounts. I also guess you're assuming K-mount would be one of the survivors.

The thing is, Q and 645 seem to be selling well enough despite a lack of lenses. I'm not sure that K-mount is, given the huge number of lenses they produce for it.

I personally think they are going to try to make a success of all three mounts, as well as the fixed lens cameras. But be careful what you wish for. If they decide to kill a mount, it might not be the one you want them to!
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