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08-28-2014, 12:47 PM   #1051
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lol

QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
So I watched the video and figured out what I'm doing wrong in my photography. Apparently I have to take my shirt off to have fun with a camera. Or was that girls? I'm just old and confused...
Nude photography isn't just for models .. anymore!

08-28-2014, 12:53 PM   #1052
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK, so this has a metal frame, IBIS (AA filter gizmo), 20MPix sensor, Prime MII processor, premium polycarbonate shell, other stuff I can't remember - and we don't yet know the street price. I assume LED's are without cost. Competitors are mature in the market and technology.

What premium features would you trade out of the K-S1, replacing them with whatever crap the competition has, to bring the price down $200?
Flip screen LCD, lenses that have IS/VR, 24 Mpix sensor, a proper handgrip. Prime MII processor isn't anything to write home about.
This versus the K-50 would be a no brainer.
You brought up the K-01 earlier. Same thing with that, it had OK features but nothing premium, yet it was charged a premium price. It only became a bargain once the prices began to plummet.

---------- Post added 08-28-14 at 12:57 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I better go tell Apple, Abercrombie, UGG, Nike, and others that their success is illusory.
They are able to charge those prices because they are established as premium brands. Can Pentax really get away with the same game?
You ask any joe schmoe off the street about the brands you listed above, from ages 6-60 and they can identify those brands, their logos, what they sell, etc. You do the same with Pentax, and they either say, what is a Pentax, or "Pentax is still around?".
08-28-2014, 01:04 PM   #1053
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Flip screen LCD, lenses that have IS/VR, 24 Mpix sensor, a proper handgrip. Prime MII processor isn't anything to write home about.
This versus the K-50 would be a no brainer.
Well the PRIME isn't slower then what Canon puts in the 700D series when looking at the performance in the review at DPR.
08-28-2014, 01:08 PM   #1054
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well the PRIME isn't slower then what Canon puts in the 700D series when looking at the performance in the review at DPR.
But a Canon is OK, a Pentax is doooooomed

08-28-2014, 01:13 PM   #1055
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well the PRIME isn't slower then what Canon puts in the 700D series when looking at the performance in the review at DPR.
Not to mention, the 700D/T5i and SL1's sensor IQ is inferior to the K20D that was announced in 2007.
08-28-2014, 01:24 PM   #1056
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Designer clothes are expensive too but some people are willing to pay for them. I don't think this camera is targeted at those that think a new pair of Levi 501s are all a person ever needs. There are other cameras for such practicality, and some of them are Pentaxes.
Designer clothes have cachet. Pentax is dad's camera collecting dust in the attic, along with Pivot Pool and Simon.

---------- Post added 08-28-14 at 04:29 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I better go tell Apple, Abercrombie, UGG, Nike, and others that their success is illusory.
Apple built a viable alternative to WinPC featuring a more stable, eye-pleasing, appliance-like user experience and excellent industrial design. Not to mention memorable marketing and being in the on the ground floor of the burgeoning home computer revolution.

Abercrombie has been bleeding for a while.

Nike was built on the feet of the world's biggest star.

Pentax is none of this.

Last edited by luftfluss; 08-28-2014 at 01:48 PM.
08-28-2014, 01:39 PM   #1057
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I better go tell Apple, Abercrombie, UGG, Nike, and others that their success is illusory.
You forgot Beats by Dre. A business built almost entirely on image. Apple just paid $3 billion for it.
08-28-2014, 02:04 PM   #1058
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
They are able to charge those prices because they are established as premium brands. Can Pentax really get away with the same game?
You ask any joe schmoe off the street about the brands you listed above, from ages 6-60 and they can identify those brands, their logos, what they sell, etc. You do the same with Pentax, and they either say, what is a Pentax, or "Pentax is still around?".
QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Designer clothes have cachet. Pentax is dad's camera collecting dust in the attic, along with Pivot Pool and Simon.

---------- Post added 08-28-14 at 04:29 PM ----------



Apple built a viable alternative to WinPC featuring a more stable, eye-pleasing,appliance-like user experience and excellent industrial design. Not mention memorable marketing and being in the on the ground floor of the burgeoning home computer revolution.

Abercrombie has been bleeding for a while.

Nike was built on the feet of the world's biggest star.

Pentax is none of this.
QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
You forgot Beats by Dre. A business built almost entirely on image. Apple just paid $3 billion for it.
These are all good points. Those other brands have much stronger identities and clearly invest in marketing…in the US at least. I don't know how Pentax is perceived overseas, particularly in Japan or China. It could be very different. Buick, AFAIK, is a well-regarded brand in China.

The Beats example is very interesting. From nothing to a $3 billion acquisition in a handful of years. And I haven't heard a lot of good about the product. But the marketing is great and the product design is fresh, so it's worked. Traditional headphone makers like Koss, Bose, and others are likely jealous. So I still stand behind the whole point of my post, to counter the argument that people won't pay a premium for design. They will, and now that it's up to Pentax marketing to create a want.

As someone else said, all DSLRs are good these days, so there's no way that Pentax is going to increase market share by being 3% better and/or 5% cheaper than the other guy. And they certainly can't out-Nikon Nikon or out-Canon Canon, so they absolutely have to go about it another way. Interesting design is certainly a way worth investigating.

Is it, like the K-01 before it, priced to high? Maybe, it depends on how well Pentax can hit their target market and make the K-S1 an object of desire, not just a box of specifications.

And honestly, the K-mount is both a blessing and a curse for the K-S1 and the K-01. Without it, the designers would have had much more freedom to make a camera of the moment; a K-01 that's half as thick is basically the Leica T.

08-28-2014, 02:27 PM   #1059
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Winning over one previewer at a time. Today, it's photographyblog.
"this camera also boasts an innovative illumination interface system..."

- and with that I'm stepping out of the K-s1 chats and going outside. Ricoh.jp ship date is 9/19, USA mileage may vary

---------- Post added 08-28-14 at 14:30 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I can totally see a millennial creative type–an ad agency creative director, a bespoke bike builder, a fashion blogger, etc… willing to pay more for the K-S1 over another boring black blob of a
I'm going with 'black sheep dSLR' myself let the marketers use That one!!
ok i'm outta here, again
08-28-2014, 02:48 PM   #1060
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Designer clothes are expensive too but some people are willing to pay for them. I don't think this camera is targeted at those that think a new pair of Levi 501s are all a person ever needs. There are other cameras for such practicality, and some of them are Pentaxes.
The K-S1 seems disjointed. It has a dedicated video function new to Pentax and much closer tot he video-centric competition. It also has dual mics for input. Yet it doesn't have an articulating rear LCD which is extremely useful for video.

Both practical AND aesthetic seem challenged here. Lots to like but also lots to dislike. not quite the Homer-car but an odd duckling that is certainly not in the premium class.

Pricing is atrocious.
08-28-2014, 03:09 PM   #1061
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
......... then why isn't the K-S1 water-resistant?
So they can sell you a new one when it gets water on it.

---------- Post added 08-28-14 at 05:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The K-S1 seems disjointed. It has a dedicated video function new to Pentax and much closer tot he video-centric competition. It also has dual mics for input. Yet it doesn't have an articulating rear LCD which is extremely useful for video.

Both practical AND aesthetic seem challenged here. Lots to like but also lots to dislike. not quite the Homer-car but an odd duckling that is certainly not in the premium class.

Pricing is atrocious.
So... you'll take 2?
08-28-2014, 03:32 PM - 3 Likes   #1062
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Hi everybody,

I'm twenty, so I believe I'm vaguely in their target demographic (I bought a Kx when I was sixteen). My mom was trying to convince me that i needed something for my birthday, so why not a camera? It was available from QVC, as was a Fuji (the Canon and Nikon models were out of price range and had worse specs). I could tell you that I chose it because the lens selection was great, or that I got to try in-store and fell in love with the ergonomics, but that didn't happen.

- It was only slightly more expensive than the Fuji

- It had more megapixels than the Fuji (not a big deal in hindsight, but I didn't know better)

- The Kx takes AA batteries

- Most importantly, it came in colours

In my opinion, the new colours look terrible, Ricoh should aim for simple hues that look good with any lens and drop the companion coloured kit lenses. They aren't leveraging the AA filter simulation right. They should either be boasting how expensive AA filter-less cameras are normally, or they should scrap it and put in an articulating screen and wifi. The LEDs are targeting a group that is younger than their target demographic, and they should get rid of them or get really creative with them (x kind of blinking means someone commenting on the photo you uploaded to Facebook). It sounds silly, but a default 'I took this with my Pentax KS-1!' tagline would probably be wise.

Aiming for a lighter camera is good, but a DSLR is going to be big, so they shouldn't compromise anything to make a smaller camera. Manuals are important, but a quick-start guide (written by Bryan Peterson, perhaps?) would be great to have -either built into the camera or as a paper pamphlet- that helps someone get started with manual focusing and the priority modes (it comes with TAv mode after all): cameras will always get flak from amateurs for their auto mode failures, and the sooner you can teach the photographer how to navigate on their own, the fewer complaints there will be.

Pricing is important. It should be competitive (particularly if the person is willing to dig through multiple online retailers), but provide a comfortable margin for in-store retailers to push the product at venues like Target and Costco. Gve retail employees a hefty discount on the camera if they agree to do a few simple exercises using the quick-start guide, it's hard to recommend a product I haven't tried.

Sorry for the scattered thoughts, I should go have some coffee.
08-28-2014, 03:37 PM   #1063
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Flip screen LCD, lenses that have IS/VR, 24 Mpix sensor, a proper handgrip. Prime MII processor isn't anything to write home about.
This versus the K-50 would be a no brainer.
You brought up the K-01 earlier. Same thing with that, it had OK features but nothing premium, yet it was charged a premium price. It only became a bargain once the prices began to plummet.
Those are adds - they make it more expensive. What do you take out and what do you replace it with?
08-28-2014, 04:24 PM   #1064
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Those are adds - they make it more expensive. What do you take out and what do you replace it with?
I think few would notice/care if the AA simulator were removed.

If the K-S1 is indeed intended to penetrate a new market, to gain mindshare for Pentax/Ricoh, then maximizing profits on a per-unit basis may not necessarily be the best way to go, long-term.

Based on that commercial, Ricoh/Pentax is marketing a piece of technology to a demographic that is accustomed to a touchscreen interface. For Ricoh/Pentax to not include one is pretty damn stupid, IMO.

---------- Post added 08-28-14 at 07:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
So they can sell you a new one when it gets water on it.
Or perhaps the owner will say, eff you, Pentax, I'm replacing it with something else.
08-28-2014, 04:55 PM - 1 Like   #1065
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I think too many are complaining that either Pentax isn't releasing new stuff (and by that I mean not shoving the same sensor in a slightly different body) fast enough, then when it does they complain that it isn't what they wanted. Okay, I get that. You want a full frame, but look at it from this POV, is someone just getting into photography going to get a full frame? Nope, they are going to get something that is cheaper and stands out some, while giving better image quality than they are used to. This does that. Give it a few months for the price to settle down in the 500ish range and see if we don't have new people joining up here. When Pentax gets enough of a following then you're going to see more stuff you like or want.

Think about it, would Pentax rather sell 50 of these or one full frame? I bet if they had one that's the ratio they would be sold at, if not more. Now would you rather get some of these into the hands f the masses who will want to upgrade lenses and bodies later on? I sure would. Also, I wouldn't doubt that same sensor and setup will come in the next K-50 version, let's call it a K60.

Remember, if things like this anger you so much maybe you should grab your camera and a lens or two and get out there to figure out what got you using Pentax and enjoying photography in the first place.
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