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08-29-2014, 08:28 AM - 2 Likes   #1156
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
AA simulator - who cares about this useless invention? It's the most unclaimed feature.
Considering it's received the most buzz of any new Pentax feature over the past 2 years, I'd say lots of people care.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
We don't know how good it's second version of M processor, but JPEG samples are not better than K-30/K-50's JPEG pictures.
From a subjective standpoint, the case can be made that the official Ricoh samples certainly look better. And I haven't seen any side-by-side controlled samples in a lab environment released yet. There certainly aren't any in the dpreview review.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Smaller? Why do you think it's advantage? A lot of user don't like small cameras.
Considering that every manufacturer has been introducing smaller cameras left and right (heck, it's the entire raison d'etre for m4/3 and NEX mirrorless), I'd say that smaller size is something that most users, particularly the more casual/less experienced shooters at which this camera is targeted, prefer a smaller form factor.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-S1 has no second wheel
Yes it does, it is just oriented differently and doubles as a mode selecter

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
no good grip
And you've handled it?

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
strange control
And you've used the interface on a camera that hasn't been released yet? Most Nikon and Canon shotoers would call the K-30's controls "strange," but unfamiliarity does not equal poorly designed.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Smaller buffer. 5 RAW is the level of 2005.
It's 5.4 FPS, or roughly 1/2 FPS slower than the 6.0 FPS of the K-50. For images that are 25% larger. And .4 FPS faster than the Nikon D5200, which was released in 2013 at a higher MSRP than the K-S1 for a non-weather sealed body.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
And higher price than K-50.
Yawn. You are comparing the MSRP of a just introduced camera to the street prices of cameras a year older or more.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
And you can buy K-5II at lower price. Don't you?
Older camera aimed at a totally different market segment.

08-29-2014, 08:34 AM   #1157
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Having just received my official Ricoh email announcing the Pentax K-S1 I have to say it looks good in white and some of the other colours as long as the kit lens complements it.

It has good lines and is compact.

The dedicated video switch and the lack of an articulating rear LCD is contradictory and poor design and marketing choices. Hocking added cost wi-fi via the Flu Card while the other brands have integrated it is also a serious error.

Can't comment on the control options. If too stiff and confusing then they need a re-think there as well.

The price is far too high for what it is.

More fails than successes.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 08-29-2014 at 09:34 AM.
08-29-2014, 08:59 AM   #1158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
No touchscreen, no native wifi, big K-mount lens with noisy autofocus. The problem with the K-S1 is that it's not going to appeal to its intended market: mobile-interface shooters. There've been only two devices that have resonated with this market in the past decade: the iPhone and the GoPro camera. Pentax and the rest of the traditional camera industry still don't have a clue about how to reach these people and I have to wonder what Pentax's next crack at mirrorless will look like. I just have to shake my head.
+1. I actually like this camera. If I didn't already own a k-01 and mx-1, I would certainly consider this as a replacement for my oldy-but goody K100DS.

But I agree that its features do not match the stated target audience. The only folks in the target audience who wants DSLRS and are willing to pay $700 are people already into photography (most of which are retro hipster types who want something along the lines of Fuji's offerings). I just don't get how you are going to convince a social-media, techny millennial to pay 700 for something without wifi or a touchscreen.

I am no marketing guru, but it seems that the target audience would much prefer a iphone-ish looking device with a lens on the front that is set up so they can take pictures of their food and drunken selfies with simulated cross-processing and then immediately upload via a touch screen--not that I would like such a device....
08-29-2014, 09:00 AM   #1159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenntak Quote
Can you really reach a person that is content with an iPhone anyway? Would you waste resources and money trying to do that?

When I was young many people would buy disposable cameras, and not simply for a particular trip--they would also use them as their main camera! Maybe we were the iPhone people of the day--not having any inclination to spend money on a better camera. Today, I appreciate good cameras and the art of photography--and I don't use an iPhone to take my pictures.
Funny, whenever I pull out my DSLR people say , "Oh, you have a camera that takes good pictures".

08-29-2014, 09:01 AM   #1160
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
The NX2000 with its 3.7" touchscreen was a bust apparently, so Samsung got rid of it for the NX3000.

So a touchscreen might be overrated.

The swivel screen, however, might be more important, but it would not allow the camera to be as small. So it was a design decision.

That's the camera Ricoh came up with, for the market they are trying to reach. If this makes you sell your K-3, I think that's a reflection on you and not on Ricoh/Pentax.
I think that makes two red herring's in a row if I include your prior post.

1) People here are scratching their heads over missing features they perceive the target market segment wants, not necessarily what they want.
2) I've yet to see anyone say they are going to sell their K-3 because of this camera. I'm certainly not selling mine.
08-29-2014, 09:09 AM   #1161
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They had a chance to make a good selling camera. All they had to do was add WS, Adjustable LCD,
08-29-2014, 09:15 AM   #1162
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I think that makes two red herring's in a row if I include your prior post.

1) People here are scratching their heads over missing features they perceive the target market segment wants, not necessarily what they want.
2) I've yet to see anyone say they are going to sell their K-3 because of this camera. I'm certainly not selling mine.
Ok so I exaggerated a bit, but it's not a total red herring. Look at this guy who wants to trade his K-30 setup with ANYONE because he doesn't like the Q-S1 and K-S1: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/271568-k-s1-japanes...ml#post2923485

Also, I'm pretty sure Ricoh didn't leave off the swivel screen because they forgot about it. It was a design decision to make a compact camera. And the people who don't want a compact camera complain about the fact that Ricoh made it compact. How is that justified?

I think Mahatma Gandhi would say something like, "I like your Pentax, but I don't like your Pentaxians..."
08-29-2014, 09:29 AM   #1163
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
The Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 PZ OSS in E-mount springs to mind.
I think Panasonic also has one for M4/3 too.
Yup on both. Neither is an optical workhorse. Of course the smaller sony e-mounts + the collapsible zoom can kill the IQ of some smaller sensor, comparable-bulk cameras. I've thought about getting a $500 A5000 or whatever it's called as a 'point and shoot'.

08-29-2014, 09:38 AM   #1164
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Collapsible lenses can and do have alignment issues. They are not a panacea to the issue of camera size. That's why they have been mostly relegated to P&S cameras with smaller sensors. Collapsible lenses were also a big factor in the development of the APS film effort.

The K-S1 has some really good features and some features bordering on unusable like the controls (according the the DP Review pre-review sort of review). It has omissions like articulating rear LCD and no built-in wi-fi. The rest of the specs look competitive except the price. Ugh!
08-29-2014, 09:48 AM   #1165
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Has Pentax ever released a camera that people didn't complain about the price at launch?

Remember when the K-5 was released and it was $200 more than the D7000? PentaxIsDoooomed™
08-29-2014, 09:48 AM   #1166
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I always thought collapsible lenses were on P&S's because those cameras were mirrorless. Tough to retract a lens through a mirror.

The smaller the component, the tougher it is to align... so I would think that's more difficult on smaller sensors rather than larger ones.

Any mechanical-sliding component introduces another means of misalignment, but it seems to me to be the same level of problem that current zooms, or even focusing mechanisms face.

---------- Post added 08-29-14 at 09:52 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Has Pentax ever released a camera that people didn't complain about the price at launch?

Remember when the K-5 was released and it was $200 more than the D7000? PentaxIsDoooomed™
The K-5 had near-universal acclaim at launch. Back then Pentax had SR in the body, and cheaper lenses than Nikon as a result. Expensive camera, less expensive lenses.

Today it's closer to the same price camera, although still a bit more expensive, with expensive lenses.




The K-5 is still a great camera, particularly if you're moire sensitive. That's one of the big problems for the cameras today - there just haven't been fundamental sensor improvements in the past four years. I don't think anyone would've predicted that in 2010, after massive order-of-magnitude changes between 2006 and 2010.
08-29-2014, 09:59 AM   #1167
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
The NX2000 with its 3.7" touchscreen was a bust apparently, so Samsung got rid of it for the NX3000.


The swivel screen, however, might be more important, but it would not allow the camera to be as small. So it was a design decision.
.
MX-1 had it...But MX-1's project is dead already.
08-29-2014, 10:00 AM   #1168
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
wow. Or, perhaps, not all cameras in the Pentax brand are designed for YOU in mind.
Yes, that is what I wrote. Perhaps I actually meant what I wrote!

The question of whether it will appeal to the demographic that it's supposed to be aimed at, I'm unsure about. I am not certain that budding photographers want something that looks or operates like a familiar (to them) iGadget. They might prefer a retro-styled camera with all the dials just to demonstrate that they are now serious about photography. It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. (I'm thinking back to how the IBM PC killed off so many home computers that were arguably much better systems, but were shunned by the public as "toys".)

QuoteQuote:
I'm amazed how one/single release by Pentax that goes against your grain can illicit such a response as 'time to dump and run.' Might you be over-reacting a teency bit?
I'm amazed how managed to read "time to dump and run" into what I wrote. I never said anything about that. Might you be over-reacting a teency bit?

Also, the K-S1 is not exactly "one/single release" that has disappointed me. I've been watching for a while now to see if Ricoh will move in the direction that interests me, and this is yet another failure to do so. I mean for example, we've yet to see any Pentax with an EVF. When will that happen?

As for the Fuji... I used it as an example of the kind of direction I'd love to see Pentax go. If money were no object, I might even be tempted. However, I already have an EM-5 and a nice little set of M4/3 lenses now. My point was simply that Olympus and Fuji are going in an interesting direction with their mirrorless system cameras, while I don't see Pentax doing anything even vaguely like that.
08-29-2014, 10:07 AM   #1169
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Considering it's received the most buzz of any new Pentax feature over the past 2 years, I'd say lots of people care.


It's 5.4 FPS, or roughly 1/2 FPS slower than the 6.0 FPS of the K-50. For images that are 25% larger.
.
K-30 has 5.52 fps with 45 frames total; 3 seconds to clear* Large/Best JPEG
RAW 5.65 fps; 8 frames total; 5 seconds to clear*

K-50 could 9 frames in RAW mode

3 fps mode = unlimited buffer for JPEG

New proccessor of K-S1 should work quicker.
08-29-2014, 10:08 AM   #1170
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Has Pentax ever released a camera that people didn't complain about the price at launch?
GR (OK, a Ricoh not a Pentax) and K-3 are the only ones I can think of. I actually had hoped they had adopted a realistic pricing strategy for their releases - release price near the estimated street price and MAP-hold it there. We'll see if I was wrong.
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