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08-29-2014, 09:48 AM   #1156
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Has Pentax ever released a camera that people didn't complain about the price at launch?

Remember when the K-5 was released and it was $200 more than the D7000? PentaxIsDoooomed™

08-29-2014, 09:48 AM   #1157
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I always thought collapsible lenses were on P&S's because those cameras were mirrorless. Tough to retract a lens through a mirror.

The smaller the component, the tougher it is to align... so I would think that's more difficult on smaller sensors rather than larger ones.

Any mechanical-sliding component introduces another means of misalignment, but it seems to me to be the same level of problem that current zooms, or even focusing mechanisms face.

---------- Post added 08-29-14 at 09:52 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Has Pentax ever released a camera that people didn't complain about the price at launch?

Remember when the K-5 was released and it was $200 more than the D7000? PentaxIsDoooomed™
The K-5 had near-universal acclaim at launch. Back then Pentax had SR in the body, and cheaper lenses than Nikon as a result. Expensive camera, less expensive lenses.

Today it's closer to the same price camera, although still a bit more expensive, with expensive lenses.




The K-5 is still a great camera, particularly if you're moire sensitive. That's one of the big problems for the cameras today - there just haven't been fundamental sensor improvements in the past four years. I don't think anyone would've predicted that in 2010, after massive order-of-magnitude changes between 2006 and 2010.
08-29-2014, 09:59 AM   #1158
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
The NX2000 with its 3.7" touchscreen was a bust apparently, so Samsung got rid of it for the NX3000.


The swivel screen, however, might be more important, but it would not allow the camera to be as small. So it was a design decision.
.
MX-1 had it...But MX-1's project is dead already.
08-29-2014, 10:00 AM   #1159
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
wow. Or, perhaps, not all cameras in the Pentax brand are designed for YOU in mind.
Yes, that is what I wrote. Perhaps I actually meant what I wrote!

The question of whether it will appeal to the demographic that it's supposed to be aimed at, I'm unsure about. I am not certain that budding photographers want something that looks or operates like a familiar (to them) iGadget. They might prefer a retro-styled camera with all the dials just to demonstrate that they are now serious about photography. It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. (I'm thinking back to how the IBM PC killed off so many home computers that were arguably much better systems, but were shunned by the public as "toys".)

QuoteQuote:
I'm amazed how one/single release by Pentax that goes against your grain can illicit such a response as 'time to dump and run.' Might you be over-reacting a teency bit?
I'm amazed how managed to read "time to dump and run" into what I wrote. I never said anything about that. Might you be over-reacting a teency bit?

Also, the K-S1 is not exactly "one/single release" that has disappointed me. I've been watching for a while now to see if Ricoh will move in the direction that interests me, and this is yet another failure to do so. I mean for example, we've yet to see any Pentax with an EVF. When will that happen?

As for the Fuji... I used it as an example of the kind of direction I'd love to see Pentax go. If money were no object, I might even be tempted. However, I already have an EM-5 and a nice little set of M4/3 lenses now. My point was simply that Olympus and Fuji are going in an interesting direction with their mirrorless system cameras, while I don't see Pentax doing anything even vaguely like that.

08-29-2014, 10:07 AM   #1160
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Considering it's received the most buzz of any new Pentax feature over the past 2 years, I'd say lots of people care.


It's 5.4 FPS, or roughly 1/2 FPS slower than the 6.0 FPS of the K-50. For images that are 25% larger.
.
K-30 has 5.52 fps with 45 frames total; 3 seconds to clear* Large/Best JPEG
RAW 5.65 fps; 8 frames total; 5 seconds to clear*

K-50 could 9 frames in RAW mode

3 fps mode = unlimited buffer for JPEG

New proccessor of K-S1 should work quicker.
08-29-2014, 10:08 AM   #1161
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Has Pentax ever released a camera that people didn't complain about the price at launch?
GR (OK, a Ricoh not a Pentax) and K-3 are the only ones I can think of. I actually had hoped they had adopted a realistic pricing strategy for their releases - release price near the estimated street price and MAP-hold it there. We'll see if I was wrong.
08-29-2014, 10:25 AM   #1162
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Small and compact DSLRs are a Pentax tradition since the 70s. I can't help but think people complain for the sake of complaining.

Y'all seem to be doing your best to kill a camera that isn't marketed towards you at all. Why do you bother?
There were no MILCs that were more compact and cheaper in the 70s.
08-29-2014, 10:41 AM   #1163
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
There were no MILCs that were more compact and cheaper in the 70s.
MILCs in the 70s? What kind of digital sensor did they have?

Sorry, I am trying to understand what you are trying to say, and why Pentax should only make bigger DSLRs.

08-29-2014, 11:07 AM - 2 Likes   #1164
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Meh, on the one hand the K-01 is too big, on the other hand the K-5 with grip is too small. I am sure the K-S1 will be a decent camera. All cameras are awkward to handle at first, but you get used to it. If its too small for your hands? Sorry, I can't help. Get a bigger one, get a grip, a silicon case.. If its too big for you? Well get a Q or something. I'm pretty sure the K-S1 is just the right size for 80% of the people that buy cameras. And while its not the top tier, it is definitely not the bottom tier. I think the K-S1 is meant to be a "sidestep". So the cameras still are K-500, K-50, K-5II, K-3. And the K-S is somewhere to the side between K-50 and K-5II. Similarly to how the K-01 didn't fit into the hierarchy (had the sharpest sensor of all Pentax cameras at the time, until the K-5IIs)
08-29-2014, 11:19 AM   #1165
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Anyone remember the PowerBook 2400c? Apple designed it specifically for the Asian market. The keyboard was only 80% the size of a standard keyboard. If you think the K-S1 is too small, you aren't its market.
08-29-2014, 11:57 AM   #1166
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I always thought collapsible lenses were on P&S's because those cameras were mirrorless. Tough to retract a lens through a mirror.

The smaller the component, the tougher it is to align... so I would think that's more difficult on smaller sensors rather than larger ones.

Any mechanical-sliding component introduces another means of misalignment, but it seems to me to be the same level of problem that current zooms, or even focusing mechanisms face.

---------- Post added 08-29-14 at 09:52 AM ----------



The K-5 had near-universal acclaim at launch. Back then Pentax had SR in the body, and cheaper lenses than Nikon as a result. Expensive camera, less expensive lenses.

Today it's closer to the same price camera, although still a bit more expensive, with expensive lenses.






The K-5 is still a great camera, particularly if you're moire sensitive. That's one of the big problems for the cameras today - there just haven't been fundamental sensor improvements in the past four years. I don't think anyone would've predicted that in 2010, after massive order-of-magnitude changes between 2006 and 2010.
You nailed the reasoning for K5 at launch. I bought my Pentax gear @ 2010 for the excellent sealed lenses and body for the price. I brought the K7 and later the K5 to Afghanistan and Iraq multiple times and other than a few overheat moments they stood up to the dust very well. I even bought a Canon 7d with the 17-50 2.8 (fast autofocus!) and later sold it in favor of the K5. Since then the lenses have gone up dramatically in price and the actual performance really isn't much better than the K5. The K3 has better autofocus in poor light and metering and some more megapixels. The autofocus is held back by slow lenses for Pentax. SDM in the DA* lenses is very slow vs Canon or Nikon.

ISO hasn't improved much since the K5. Honestly APS-C is barely behind Full Frame in ISO performance up to 6400 these days which was not the case when the K7 series was new. Even my Sony RX100 does well in poor light. My Fuji 16mp sensor is barely worse than a Full Frame for ISO. The performance gains seem to have slowed down a bunch for sensors these days.

Innovation will come in the form of superior handling, great color from the camera (Fuji!) and improved dynamic range from now on out. I love the hybrid viewfinder on my X100s and would buy a new K camera just for that if it was offered. Right now even the K3 doesn't tempt me because the K5 is so good. Pentax is trying something new with this K-S1 which is fine, from my own customer opinion it's overpriced and looks like it has oversimplified controls. We shall see how it fares after launch. I expect it will be discounted quickly to @ 500-600 dollars where it'll sell better. It's competing with the likes of the Sony A6000 (24mp) and Nikon D5300 (24mp) and the Fuji X-E2 (kit lenses are really nice and best primes)

If your not a Pentax fan why would you buy it over those options?
08-29-2014, 12:42 PM   #1167
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
MILCs in the 70s? What kind of digital sensor did they have?
Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera.

You're never gonna know I guess.

Back to the future. Point is, if someone is in the market for a small ILC, why get a tiny Pentax DSLR that is still big and blobby compared to many cheaper mirrorless cameras?
08-29-2014, 01:06 PM   #1168
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The problem is 24 megapixels is pretty much the limit for the current APS-C Bayer designed sensor. With Pixels being a constant size, trying to cram more pixels on the same size sensor will only create more noise at lower ISOS . Sony is working on a new kind of sensor that is supposed to be featured in their cameras possibly by the end of 2015. It will probably be available to other camera companies (Pentax) hopefully six months after that. Pentax knows that and they will be stalling. They will probably produce one to two more "high end" APS-C cameras and probably at least 2 more cameras with the 20 megapixels sensor. Hopefully they will improve the auto-focus and flash features during this time.
08-29-2014, 01:09 PM   #1169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera.

You're never gonna know I guess.

Back to the future. Point is, if someone is in the market for a small ILC, why get a tiny Pentax DSLR that is still big and blobby compared to many cheaper mirrorless cameras?
I know what a MILC is. But the name wasn't used for rangefinders in the 70s. I think the concept for rangefinders is quite different form today's mirrorless cameras.

And even if you do bring the rangefinders into this question, here's a pic for you:



To finalize: since you're so vocal about the uselessness of Pentax releasing small cameras, why don't you write to Canon saying they're idiots for releasing the SL1, or to Nikon to say the same about the D3200? Mirrorless are smaller, why do they keep releasing nice small DSLRs? Morons!!

Unless, of course, you're a DSLR consumer and a DSLR is what you want. Then the small size comes in handy. I'm loving my K-r!
08-29-2014, 01:13 PM - 2 Likes   #1170
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The more time that goes by (it's been a week or so right?) the more I have no issues with the K-S1.
As a SEVERE Pentaxian, I think this camera is going to do all right.
Its competent via the spec sheet, and the styling - works - without qualifying.
Who cares who this might be marketed to, I like that it takes K mount glass, is a camera as opposed to a toy, and is surely of high quality in terms of build.

Once the price comes down a bit, I'm sure it will do well.

I'm relieved that we don't have another crazy idea.
For once in recent memory, Pentax/Ricoh is making an honest attempt to attract photographers with something "new" in a dSLR.

Maybe the re-packaging and color-shifting is finally coming to an end and we will start to get products that are different.

Yeah, I've got no issues with the K-S1.
As of now, it has my stamp of approval (FWIW)
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