Pentax K-S1!

mecrox · 08-27-2014, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

I actually don't want Pentax to compete based on price; it devalues the brand as a whole.

That does not mean I want Pentax to not be price-competitive... I simply do not want their focus to be having the lowest price. If, on balance, the K-S1 offers the same features and shooting experience as a $599 camera, don't sell it at $499 just to undercut the "competition".

There are two key ingredients here, I would have thought. The first thing is to be extremely price competitive with the retailer, in the sense of putting more money in the retailer's pocket than the next guy. Second, selling your product for the maximum the market will accept. Too much or too little is a misjudgement. Leave it to the next guy to get that bit all wrong. If you've judged the right price - and that will be a process as the price fluctuates over the product's lifetime - then your product should sell. Asking too little for a product is a race to the bottom.

Last edited by mecrox; 08-27-2014 at 08:50 AM.

Fogel70 · 08-27-2014, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by fsge

I remember I bought my k-x kit for 800+ euros right after its launch back in 2009...
I would be surprised if this Ks1, if replacing K50, has a price tag below 500usd. Or maybe it is a K500 upgrade?

It seems much more logical if K-S1 will replace K500.
K-500 was a quick solution for releasing a entry level DSLR. Just strip a few features from k-50.
But I doubt that k-500 was optimized for lowest possible production cost. They probably have put more effort on K-S1 to minimize cost.

K-S1 is maybe also better optimized for entry level users, users that may find K-500 too complex to use.

stevebrot · 08-27-2014, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by mee

I believe that sound is the sound of the Second Hand Marketplace forum loading with abundant items at competitive prices..

Define competitive...

Steve

ChristianRock · 08-27-2014, 08:35 AM

But an entry level with a selectable AA filter? That's what has me wondering...

**boriscleto** · 08-27-2014, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

But an entry level with a selectable AA filter? That's what has me wondering...

The research is already paid for. Might as well use it.

stevebrot · 08-27-2014, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by THoog

In addition, most of the KAF pins are there to communicate the smallest and largest apertures of the lens (NOT the current aperture setting, mind you- just the largest and smallest it is capable of).

Excellent point and something of historic interest as well. As many (most?) of us know, the "Ricoh Pin" is the bane of Pentax users who fancy manual focus K-mount glass. The infamous pin was Ricoh's answer to programmed exposure support on a K-mount camera. One pin (contact) for data with the lens chipped to provide the pertinent information. The data contact on the current KAF mount is capable of doing everything that the other contacts currently do.

Steve

---------- Post added 08-27-14 at 08:47 AM ----------

Originally posted by monochrome

None of which has anything to do with the K-S1.

...or all of which pertains to the K-S1, including the fate of Hong Kong! (The fate of Tokyo is taken...)

The lack of a fourth mount is a good reason to not buy a K-S1!

Steve

---------- Post added 08-27-14 at 08:49 AM ----------

Originally posted by sunfog

KS 1 - YouTube

Private

Steve

ElJamoquio · 08-27-2014, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

With what is going into this camera I imagine that if a camera is announced at Photokina it's going to be a biggie. Depending on the price point of this I may be interested in one.

If you ascribe to industry 'common knowledge' (I don't, but)...

The earlier before the big-dance you announce, the more afraid you are that the big dance excitement is going to crowd out your product.

Entry-level stuff rarely gets the reaction of the higher-end stuff, even if far fewer people will purchase the higher end stuff.

y0chang · 08-27-2014, 08:59 AM

Pentax has to be aware that the D3200 kit is under $500 as well as the SL1 body only. It has to be a compelling argument to not buy Canikon but buy Pentax... I realize that Pentax has to not devalue itself, a bottom of market strategy is never viable long term. What price point is it? No idea but but im gonna guess 500 is going to be the ballpark.

shaX 07 · 08-27-2014, 09:06 AM

This camera keeps growing on me. I like the idea of it being smaller and more sized like the SL1, but with a proper grip. I held an SL1 and there's barely anything to hold onto. Also I think the mode dial button is pretty cool and unique.

I take it this is not going to be weather sealed?

Might make for a good second body to the K-5ii

bibz · 08-27-2014, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by JinDesu

Pfft. Make it sound like a 6x7 if it's not going to be quiet at all!

Couple months back I had my 6x7 out taking some pictures under a bridge on a jetty. It was so tranquil and peaceful with the setting sun, couple of people fishing quietly near by. I lined up a simple composition and SHOTGUN BLAST! I forgot about the shutter + concrete bridge combo...It really does demand respect!

JinDesu · 08-27-2014, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by bibz

Couple months back I had my 6x7 out taking some pictures under a bridge on a jetty. It was so tranquil and peaceful with the setting sun, couple of people fishing quietly near by. I lined up a simple composition and SHOTGUN BLAST! I forgot about the shutter + concrete bridge combo...It really does demand respect!

Exactly. Introduce a mirror lockup function where the mirror sounds like cocking a shotgun also :P

ogl · 08-27-2014, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by y0chang

I think the price point is really what will set this camera apart. If its 500+ no one is going to buy it. If its under 400 and sold everywhere, 20 mega pixels no AA, full DSLR speed and focus, I think its a very compelling package. The prob is that Pentax always has had a compelling package, whether or not people buy in places other than japan it is a different story. I think the K-S1 will do well in Japan, but elsewhere I am not as sure. I definitely am more interested now that I saw it in the video (The video been removed though...that was one quick plug of that leak).

I think not lower than USD700 for kit version

bibz · 08-27-2014, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by JinDesu

Exactly. Introduce a mirror lockup function where the mirror sounds like cocking a shotgun also :P

Flashing leds and gun sounds? Hell yeah! That'd go great on a photosnaiper rig!

**boriscleto** · 08-27-2014, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by bibz

Flashing leds and gun sounds? Hell yeah! That'd go great on a photosnaiper rig!

You would end up with a lot of dead photographers in the US given the current atmosphere. But I'm not going to get all P&R...

bibz · 08-27-2014, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

You would end up with a lot of dead photographers in the US given the current atmosphere. But I'm not going to get all P&R...

My mates a cop and when I showed him my photosnaiper he laughed and said 'You're gonna get arrested'. That's down under though..

08-27-2014, 08:59 AM	#833
y0chang Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: United States Posts: 793	Pentax has to be aware that the D3200 kit is under $500 as well as the SL1 body only. It has to be a compelling argument to not buy Canikon but buy Pentax... I realize that Pentax has to not devalue itself, a bottom of market strategy is never viable long term. What price point is it? No idea but but im gonna guess 500 is going to be the ballpark. Last edited by y0chang; 08-27-2014 at 09:05 AM.

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08-27-2014, 08:10 AM	#826
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by luftfluss I actually don't want Pentax to compete based on price; it devalues the brand as a whole. That does not mean I want Pentax to not be price-competitive... I simply do not want their focus to be having the lowest price. If, on balance, the K-S1 offers the same features and shooting experience as a $599 camera, don't sell it at $499 just to undercut the "competition". There are two key ingredients here, I would have thought. The first thing is to be extremely price competitive with the retailer, in the sense of putting more money in the retailer's pocket than the next guy. Second, selling your product for the maximum the market will accept. Too much or too little is a misjudgement. Leave it to the next guy to get that bit all wrong. If you've judged the right price - and that will be a process as the price fluctuates over the product's lifetime - then your product should sell. Asking too little for a product is a race to the bottom. Last edited by mecrox; 08-27-2014 at 08:50 AM.

08-27-2014, 08:32 AM	#827
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by fsge I remember I bought my k-x kit for 800+ euros right after its launch back in 2009... I would be surprised if this Ks1, if replacing K50, has a price tag below 500usd. Or maybe it is a K500 upgrade? It seems much more logical if K-S1 will replace K500. K-500 was a quick solution for releasing a entry level DSLR. Just strip a few features from k-50. But I doubt that k-500 was optimized for lowest possible production cost. They probably have put more effort on K-S1 to minimize cost. K-S1 is maybe also better optimized for entry level users, users that may find K-500 too complex to use.

08-27-2014, 08:35 AM	#828
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mee I believe that sound is the sound of the Second Hand Marketplace forum loading with abundant items at competitive prices.. Define competitive... Steve

08-27-2014, 08:35 AM	#829
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,912	But an entry level with a selectable AA filter? That's what has me wondering...

08-27-2014, 08:39 AM	#830
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,476	Originally posted by ChristianRock But an entry level with a selectable AA filter? That's what has me wondering... The research is already paid for. Might as well use it.

08-27-2014, 08:44 AM	#831
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by THoog In addition, most of the KAF pins are there to communicate the smallest and largest apertures of the lens (NOT the current aperture setting, mind you- just the largest and smallest it is capable of). Excellent point and something of historic interest as well. As many (most?) of us know, the "Ricoh Pin" is the bane of Pentax users who fancy manual focus K-mount glass. The infamous pin was Ricoh's answer to programmed exposure support on a K-mount camera. One pin (contact) for data with the lens chipped to provide the pertinent information. The data contact on the current KAF mount is capable of doing everything that the other contacts currently do. Steve ---------- Post added 08-27-14 at 08:47 AM ---------- Originally posted by monochrome None of which has anything to do with the K-S1. ...or all of which pertains to the K-S1, including the fate of Hong Kong! (The fate of Tokyo is taken...) The lack of a fourth mount is a good reason to not buy a K-S1! Steve ---------- Post added 08-27-14 at 08:49 AM ---------- Originally posted by sunfog KS 1 - YouTube Private Steve

08-27-2014, 08:50 AM	#832
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason With what is going into this camera I imagine that if a camera is announced at Photokina it's going to be a biggie. Depending on the price point of this I may be interested in one. If you ascribe to industry 'common knowledge' (I don't, but)... The earlier before the big-dance you announce, the more afraid you are that the big dance excitement is going to crowd out your product. Entry-level stuff rarely gets the reaction of the higher-end stuff, even if far fewer people will purchase the higher end stuff.

08-27-2014, 09:06 AM	#834
shaX 07 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Maine Posts: 331	This camera keeps growing on me. I like the idea of it being smaller and more sized like the SL1, but with a proper grip. I held an SL1 and there's barely anything to hold onto. Also I think the mode dial button is pretty cool and unique. I take it this is not going to be weather sealed? Might make for a good second body to the K-5ii

08-27-2014, 09:07 AM	#835
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Originally posted by JinDesu Pfft. Make it sound like a 6x7 if it's not going to be quiet at all! Couple months back I had my 6x7 out taking some pictures under a bridge on a jetty. It was so tranquil and peaceful with the setting sun, couple of people fishing quietly near by. I lined up a simple composition and SHOTGUN BLAST! I forgot about the shutter + concrete bridge combo...It really does demand respect!

08-27-2014, 09:08 AM	#836
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by bibz Couple months back I had my 6x7 out taking some pictures under a bridge on a jetty. It was so tranquil and peaceful with the setting sun, couple of people fishing quietly near by. I lined up a simple composition and SHOTGUN BLAST! I forgot about the shutter + concrete bridge combo...It really does demand respect! Exactly. Introduce a mirror lockup function where the mirror sounds like cocking a shotgun also :P

08-27-2014, 09:11 AM	#837
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by y0chang I think the price point is really what will set this camera apart. If its 500+ no one is going to buy it. If its under 400 and sold everywhere, 20 mega pixels no AA, full DSLR speed and focus, I think its a very compelling package. The prob is that Pentax always has had a compelling package, whether or not people buy in places other than japan it is a different story. I think the K-S1 will do well in Japan, but elsewhere I am not as sure. I definitely am more interested now that I saw it in the video (The video been removed though...that was one quick plug of that leak). I think not lower than USD700 for kit version

08-27-2014, 09:11 AM	#838
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Originally posted by JinDesu Exactly. Introduce a mirror lockup function where the mirror sounds like cocking a shotgun also :P Flashing leds and gun sounds? Hell yeah! That'd go great on a photosnaiper rig!

08-27-2014, 09:17 AM	#839
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,476	Originally posted by bibz Flashing leds and gun sounds? Hell yeah! That'd go great on a photosnaiper rig! You would end up with a lot of dead photographers in the US given the current atmosphere. But I'm not going to get all P&R...

08-27-2014, 09:21 AM	#840
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Originally posted by boriscleto You would end up with a lot of dead photographers in the US given the current atmosphere. But I'm not going to get all P&R... My mates a cop and when I showed him my photosnaiper he laughed and said 'You're gonna get arrested'. That's down under though..