Pentax K-S1!

thibs · 08-29-2014, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Clothears

That this camera appears to be irritating a number of foolish posters here can only be a good thing.

I dunno if it is good but it certainly works like hell

IchabodCrane · 08-29-2014, 04:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mee

But isn't that the same argument? "They aren't doing what I want them to do.. so they are wrong."

More accurately, they haven't been doing what many have been asking them to do for a long time and I'm not even throwing the FF issue into the pot. But more important, people have been asking them to do things that they feel is necessary for the future of the brand regardless of whether they want a specific product or not. For example, I don't need a motorized FA 77 but I sure think it's a good idea for Ricoh to make one.

thibs · 08-29-2014, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

More accurately, they haven't been doing what many have been asking them to do for a long time and I'm not even throwing the FF issue into the pot. But more important, people have been asking them to do things that they feel is necessary for the future of the brand regardless of whether they want a specific product or not. For example, I don't need a motorized FA 77 but I sure think it's a good idea for Ricoh to make one.

They won't do that right now.
If they do, everybody will yell 'FF is coming'.
If they mod them to make DAs, everybody will yell 'treason'.
If they update with HD coatings, everybody will laugh.

IF (big if I know) Ricoh intends to go FF, they would not touch the FA Limited until announcement.

mee · 08-29-2014, 04:57 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

More accurately, they haven't been doing what many have been asking them to do for a long time and I'm not even throwing the FF issue into the pot. But more important, people have been asking them to do things that they feel is necessary for the future of the brand regardless of whether they want a specific product or not. For example, I don't need a motorized FA 77 but I sure think it's a good idea for Ricoh to make one.

They seem to be handling themselves pretty well.. why would a corporation do what a small band of end users say on a forum on the internet? Not that they are perfect in their decision making, but I suspect they have a better handle on the market than we do due to more research plus an inside knowledge of what financially and technically their company can manage at any given time. I think they should run their company the way they see fit and we should just see what we get or respond by finding a different system. On those surveys they send, that is where it is most important let our 'voices' be heard - but I would doubt they come here and scour the threads to gauge interest. So I don't see the purpose to constantly bellyache on the forums that Pentax isn't doing what I think they should be doing so they are doomed.

The world (including Pentax) doesn't revolve around us, but from a select few posters here at PF it might be hard to see otherwise.

**THoog** · 08-29-2014, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by mee

They seem to be handling themselves pretty well.. why would a corporation do what a small band of end users say on a forum on the internet? Not that they are perfect in their decision making, but I suspect they have a better handle on the market than we do due to more research plus an inside knowledge of what financially and technically their company can manage at any given time. I think they should run their company the way they see fit and we should just see what we get or respond by finding a different system. On those surveys they send, that is where it is most important let our 'voices' be heard - but I would doubt they come here and scour the threads to gauge interest. So I don't see the purpose to constantly bellyache on the forums that Pentax isn't doing what I think they should be doing so they are doomed.

The world (including Pentax) doesn't revolve around us, but from a select few posters here at PF it might be hard to see otherwise.

+1. Also, there is the conceit that WE are Pentax' primary market (he said, in English, when very few of us are in Japan, and I believe the last numbers indicated most of Pentax sales are domestic), or that our priorities are the same (or that ours take precedence). That the K-500 wasn't sold in Japan really underlined the differences in priorities - we want plain black cameras at the lowest price possible (even if it means stripping features), while the Japanese market is willing to pay more for features and colors. That wasn't just some random decision. We dismiss cute and colorful, but in Japan, cute and colorful sells.

Sure, if Pentax wants to grow outside of Japan, they are going to have to take our tastes and desires into account, but at this point, they have to play to the home market.

IchabodCrane · 08-29-2014, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by mee

They seem to be handling themselves pretty well.. why would a corporation do what a small band of end users say on a forum on the internet? Not that they are perfect in their decision making, but I suspect they have a better handle on the market than we do due to more research plus an inside knowledge of what financially and technically their company can manage at any given time. I think they should run their company the way they see fit and we should just see what we get or respond by finding a different system. On those surveys they send, that is where it is most important let our 'voices' be heard - but I would doubt they come here and scour the threads to gauge interest. So I don't see the purpose to constantly bellyache on the forums that Pentax isn't doing what I think they should be doing so they are doomed.

The world (including Pentax) doesn't revolve around us, but from a select few posters here at PF it might be hard to see otherwise.

Actually, to some extent their world does revolve around us as we're the ones who have spent all this money on their products. Who out there has a better handle on what they should be selling? And let's face it, if they were doing such a good job running the various facets of their camera business they wouldn't have a market share under 5%.

Kharan · 08-29-2014, 06:17 AM

Let me try to explain this in a simpler manner...

According to the ad, promotional materials, and general styling of the K-S1, it's targeting a different market segment than any of its predecessors. Is this bad? No. Has it been poorly done? Hell yes! The exterior of the camera is very unique, and could certainly prove very attractive for "non-photographers" (as arrogant an expression as there ever was >_<). But the spec list is targeted at your usual Pentaxian, with interesting if somewhat limited features.

See the problem now? I don't think that us detractors are displeased at not having the products that WE demand, but rather that the K-S1 is a bad implementation of a great concept. If you really want to broaden your market share with innovative solutions, you can't make it half-assed and stop at the exterior. In that sense, both the Q and the K-01 were far more consistent.

Zygonyx · 08-29-2014, 06:20 AM

Just need adding sweevel+touch screen... to be coherent.

ogl · 08-29-2014, 06:38 AM

The problem is not K-S1.
The problem is the direction of developing of new cameras by Ricoh.

If we fix our eyes on K-1S's specs, we understand that it's 95%'s K-30 in new body. 2.5 years old machine.
With the exception of sensor. Some things are weaker. Some the same. Remove second control wheel, WR and put weaker flash.
Made rather uncomfortable grip. Strange control.

The main idea of press-release is NEW DESIGN of body. And nothing else. It's strange for me.

**monochrome** · 08-29-2014, 06:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

Actually, to some extent their world does revolve around us as we're the ones who have spent all this money on their products. Who out there has a better handle on what they should be selling? And let's face it, if they were doing such a good job running the various facets of their camera business they wouldn't have a market share under 5%.

Spoken like a true globalist.

ogl · 08-29-2014, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Kharan

Let me try to explain this in a simpler manner...

According to the ad, promotional materials, and general styling of the K-S1, it's targeting a different market segment than any of its predecessors. Is this bad? .

Where did you find it?

K-S1 will change K-50 very soon IMO.
Press-release says other things...

PENTAX - K-S1 Black
The PENTAX K-S1: a new innovative digital SLR camera, available in 12 fashionable colour variations - RICOH IMAGING UK LTD.

Experience photography in a new light with the PENTAX K-S1. Whether you’re new to photography or a skilled enthusiast, the K-S1 offers you the ability to take your imaging to the next level.

Featuring outstanding imaging performance, progressive design and an innovative illuminated body, the K-S1 rivals even high-end models.

No any NEXT LEVEL. Can't rival high-end models.

It's empty words for advertising and nothing else. Alas!

**monochrome** · 08-29-2014, 06:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ogl

If we fix our eyes on K-1S's specs, we understand that it's 95%'s K-30 in new body. 2.5 years old machine.
With the exception of sensor. Some things are weaker. Some the same. Remove second control wheel. WR and put weaker flash.
Made rather uncomfortable grip. Strange control.

The main idea of press-release is NEW DESIGN of body. And nothing else. It's strange for me.

So they have a low engineering cost extension of understood and proven technology wrapped in a jazzy appealing body that's probably easy to assemble - a low cost product. It will be a snap to ship by the boatload to the home market, which is expanding rapidly and like snazzy designs and pretty, blingy toys. If they ship 300,000 over the planned production run and make x$ profit per unit that's a quick 300,000 * x.

I don't think they really care about us on this one and we shouldn't bother complaining about it. We got our K-3 and 645Z - Q-S1 and K-S1 are for someone else.

lytrytyr · 08-29-2014, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Can't rival high-end models.

Not too long ago, the optional sensor-shake AA filtration in the K-3 was being hailed by all as a high-end feature!

RonHendriks1966 · 08-29-2014, 06:52 AM

Looking at some prices of one of the bigger shop in The Netherlands:

Prijzen op Urk:

K-S1 with 18-55DAL: 699 euro
K-30 with 18-55WR: 569 euro
K-50 with 18-55WR: 499 euro
K-500 with 18-55DAL: 399 euro
K-5II with 18-55WR: 788 euro
K-3 with 18-55WR: 1049 euro

I say not a chance with these prices. There are other brands with nice camera's under 499 to.

Kunzite · 08-29-2014, 06:56 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dcshooter

I'd say that in addition to a higher res sensor, the AA simulator, new image processor, and most importantly, its significantly smaller size are all pretty major changes. Maybe they are not the ones you want, but saying it is 95% K30 is rather disingenuous. By your criteria, the K3 is arguably 95% K30, too.

All Pentax DSLRs are just rehashes of the original Asahiflex!

08-29-2014, 06:38 AM	#1119
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	The problem is not K-S1. The problem is the direction of developing of new cameras by Ricoh. If we fix our eyes on K-1S's specs, we understand that it's 95%'s K-30 in new body. 2.5 years old machine. With the exception of sensor. Some things are weaker. Some the same. Remove second control wheel, WR and put weaker flash. Made rather uncomfortable grip. Strange control. The main idea of press-release is NEW DESIGN of body. And nothing else. It's strange for me. Last edited by ogl; 08-29-2014 at 06:52 AM.

08-29-2014, 06:52 AM	#1124
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Price watch Looking at some prices of one of the bigger shop in The Netherlands: Prijzen op Urk: K-S1 with 18-55DAL: 699 euro K-30 with 18-55WR: 569 euro K-50 with 18-55WR: 499 euro K-500 with 18-55DAL: 399 euro K-5II with 18-55WR: 788 euro K-3 with 18-55WR: 1049 euro I say not a chance with these prices. There are other brands with nice camera's under 499 to.

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08-29-2014, 04:41 AM	#1111
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Clothears That this camera appears to be irritating a number of foolish posters here can only be a good thing. I dunno if it is good but it certainly works like hell

08-29-2014, 04:49 AM - 1 Like	#1112
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by mee But isn't that the same argument? "They aren't doing what I want them to do.. so they are wrong." More accurately, they haven't been doing what many have been asking them to do for a long time and I'm not even throwing the FF issue into the pot. But more important, people have been asking them to do things that they feel is necessary for the future of the brand regardless of whether they want a specific product or not. For example, I don't need a motorized FA 77 but I sure think it's a good idea for Ricoh to make one.

08-29-2014, 04:52 AM	#1113
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by IchabodCrane More accurately, they haven't been doing what many have been asking them to do for a long time and I'm not even throwing the FF issue into the pot. But more important, people have been asking them to do things that they feel is necessary for the future of the brand regardless of whether they want a specific product or not. For example, I don't need a motorized FA 77 but I sure think it's a good idea for Ricoh to make one. They won't do that right now. If they do, everybody will yell 'FF is coming'. If they mod them to make DAs, everybody will yell 'treason'. If they update with HD coatings, everybody will laugh. IF (big if I know) Ricoh intends to go FF, they would not touch the FA Limited until announcement.

08-29-2014, 04:57 AM - 3 Likes	#1114
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by IchabodCrane More accurately, they haven't been doing what many have been asking them to do for a long time and I'm not even throwing the FF issue into the pot. But more important, people have been asking them to do things that they feel is necessary for the future of the brand regardless of whether they want a specific product or not. For example, I don't need a motorized FA 77 but I sure think it's a good idea for Ricoh to make one. They seem to be handling themselves pretty well.. why would a corporation do what a small band of end users say on a forum on the internet? Not that they are perfect in their decision making, but I suspect they have a better handle on the market than we do due to more research plus an inside knowledge of what financially and technically their company can manage at any given time. I think they should run their company the way they see fit and we should just see what we get or respond by finding a different system. On those surveys they send, that is where it is most important let our 'voices' be heard - but I would doubt they come here and scour the threads to gauge interest. So I don't see the purpose to constantly bellyache on the forums that Pentax isn't doing what I think they should be doing so they are doomed. The world (including Pentax) doesn't revolve around us, but from a select few posters here at PF it might be hard to see otherwise.

08-29-2014, 05:45 AM	#1115
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by mee They seem to be handling themselves pretty well.. why would a corporation do what a small band of end users say on a forum on the internet? Not that they are perfect in their decision making, but I suspect they have a better handle on the market than we do due to more research plus an inside knowledge of what financially and technically their company can manage at any given time. I think they should run their company the way they see fit and we should just see what we get or respond by finding a different system. On those surveys they send, that is where it is most important let our 'voices' be heard - but I would doubt they come here and scour the threads to gauge interest. So I don't see the purpose to constantly bellyache on the forums that Pentax isn't doing what I think they should be doing so they are doomed. The world (including Pentax) doesn't revolve around us, but from a select few posters here at PF it might be hard to see otherwise. +1. Also, there is the conceit that WE are Pentax' primary market (he said, in English, when very few of us are in Japan, and I believe the last numbers indicated most of Pentax sales are domestic), or that our priorities are the same (or that ours take precedence). That the K-500 wasn't sold in Japan really underlined the differences in priorities - we want plain black cameras at the lowest price possible (even if it means stripping features), while the Japanese market is willing to pay more for features and colors. That wasn't just some random decision. We dismiss cute and colorful, but in Japan, cute and colorful sells. Sure, if Pentax wants to grow outside of Japan, they are going to have to take our tastes and desires into account, but at this point, they have to play to the home market.

08-29-2014, 05:46 AM	#1116
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by mee They seem to be handling themselves pretty well.. why would a corporation do what a small band of end users say on a forum on the internet? Not that they are perfect in their decision making, but I suspect they have a better handle on the market than we do due to more research plus an inside knowledge of what financially and technically their company can manage at any given time. I think they should run their company the way they see fit and we should just see what we get or respond by finding a different system. On those surveys they send, that is where it is most important let our 'voices' be heard - but I would doubt they come here and scour the threads to gauge interest. So I don't see the purpose to constantly bellyache on the forums that Pentax isn't doing what I think they should be doing so they are doomed. The world (including Pentax) doesn't revolve around us, but from a select few posters here at PF it might be hard to see otherwise. Actually, to some extent their world does revolve around us as we're the ones who have spent all this money on their products. Who out there has a better handle on what they should be selling? And let's face it, if they were doing such a good job running the various facets of their camera business they wouldn't have a market share under 5%.

08-29-2014, 06:17 AM	#1117
Kharan Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 74	Let me try to explain this in a simpler manner... According to the ad, promotional materials, and general styling of the K-S1, it's targeting a different market segment than any of its predecessors. Is this bad? No. Has it been poorly done? Hell yes! The exterior of the camera is very unique, and could certainly prove very attractive for "non-photographers" (as arrogant an expression as there ever was >_<). But the spec list is targeted at your usual Pentaxian, with interesting if somewhat limited features. See the problem now? I don't think that us detractors are displeased at not having the products that WE demand, but rather that the K-S1 is a bad implementation of a great concept. If you really want to broaden your market share with innovative solutions, you can't make it half-assed and stop at the exterior. In that sense, both the Q and the K-01 were far more consistent.

08-29-2014, 06:20 AM	#1118
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Just need adding sweevel+touch screen... to be coherent.

08-29-2014, 06:42 AM - 1 Like	#1120
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by IchabodCrane Actually, to some extent their world does revolve around us as we're the ones who have spent all this money on their products. Who out there has a better handle on what they should be selling? And let's face it, if they were doing such a good job running the various facets of their camera business they wouldn't have a market share under 5%. Spoken like a true globalist.

08-29-2014, 06:42 AM	#1121
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kharan Let me try to explain this in a simpler manner... According to the ad, promotional materials, and general styling of the K-S1, it's targeting a different market segment than any of its predecessors. Is this bad? . Where did you find it? K-S1 will change K-50 very soon IMO. Press-release says other things... PENTAX - K-S1 Black The PENTAX K-S1: a new innovative digital SLR camera, available in 12 fashionable colour variations - RICOH IMAGING UK LTD. Experience photography in a new light with the PENTAX K-S1. Whether you’re new to photography or a skilled enthusiast, the K-S1 offers you the ability to take your imaging to the next level. Featuring outstanding imaging performance, progressive design and an innovative illuminated body, the K-S1 rivals even high-end models. No any NEXT LEVEL. Can't rival high-end models. It's empty words for advertising and nothing else. Alas!

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08-29-2014, 06:49 AM - 1 Like	#1122
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by ogl If we fix our eyes on K-1S's specs, we understand that it's 95%'s K-30 in new body. 2.5 years old machine. With the exception of sensor. Some things are weaker. Some the same. Remove second control wheel. WR and put weaker flash. Made rather uncomfortable grip. Strange control. The main idea of press-release is NEW DESIGN of body. And nothing else. It's strange for me. So they have a low engineering cost extension of understood and proven technology wrapped in a jazzy appealing body that's probably easy to assemble - a low cost product. It will be a snap to ship by the boatload to the home market, which is expanding rapidly and like snazzy designs and pretty, blingy toys. If they ship 300,000 over the planned production run and make x$ profit per unit that's a quick 300,000 * x. I don't think they really care about us *on this one* and we shouldn't bother complaining about it. We got our K-3 and 645Z - Q-S1 and K-S1 are for someone else.

08-29-2014, 06:52 AM	#1123
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by ogl Can't rival high-end models. Not too long ago, the optional sensor-shake AA filtration in the K-3 was being hailed by all as a high-end feature!

08-29-2014, 06:56 AM - 1 Like	#1125
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by dcshooter I'd say that in addition to a higher res sensor, the AA simulator, new image processor, and most importantly, its significantly smaller size are all pretty major changes. Maybe they are not the ones you want, but saying it is 95% K30 is rather disingenuous. By your criteria, the K3 is arguably 95% K30, too. All Pentax DSLRs are just rehashes of the original Asahiflex!