[jatrax]

Sorry,No idea.
I know only that the old limited line is out of production since minimum 2 years.
Since yesterday No information about a new line.

Here is his actual post (Asahi Man), although this is not the first time he has posted the same thing. " No production since minimum 2 years".
So either production was stopped as Ricoh had no intention of releasing a FF camera (at that time) OR the inventory at that time was deemed large enough to cover the expected time span before the lenses were refreshed OR Ricoh has examined sales of those lenses and decided they were not worth continuing to produce.

[JPT]

I think you've missed the point
Canon's entry models might not be that interesting but they are pretty cheap and drag people into the "net" as such and with a big system on offer the ones that do move up to more expensive bodies or buying lenses and other bits they're much more likely to get them to buy further into the Canon system it's worked wonders for them for the last 10 years, the potential money making from this is pretty big not everyone just goes out first go to bag a 5dMkIII and a ton of L lenses. Thus the entry market is important for all makers


Looking back it's never worked doing oddball designs, Pentax tried the K-01 (epic fail) They had the "transformer styled" K-30 which again didn't do anything for the brand. Olympus has done strange designs in the past too (with the same result) Sony made a specific "girlie type" entry DSLR years ago (A230 in a variety of colours etc but clearly aimed at females mostly) and it did worse than their A200 (normal looking DSLR) by a big margin


In short it doesn't work full stop. When you "bling up" a camera like this it instantly puts off quite a few buyers, and it's not a sexist thing I'd wager over 50% of camera buyers (at least DSLR buyers) are male probably quite a bit over that number. The moment you start making a camera with "girlie/bling" overtones or styling you're asking for trouble that's why Canikon don't mess about here at all (sure Nikon do some coloured versions of their entry models but that's it nothing oddball about it) if it worked Canikon would do it


There are other considerations from an ergonomics points of view the K-S1 doesn't look convincing to me, maybe it's not as bad in the hand but that's another point to make and it's a serious one. Lastly the launch price is far from super budget either so really it's not we want to dance on the grave of a just released camera, rather it's just a slow moving train crash with no hope of avoiding the obvious.


You don't have to be an expert in marketing to see how the industry works

For a start we have no idea whether the K-01 or K-30 met Ricoh's expectations, because we have no idea what their expectations were in the first place. One thing we now know is that Ricoh is conscious of a need to attract younger DSLR users, so I believe the K-01 and the K-S1 are part of Pentax's and Ricoh's attempt to do this. If they sold their stock of K-01, they probably didn't lose money on it. What might be more important than sales to them is who they sold them to. If they find that the average age of K-01 customers is younger than other K-mount customers, they may see it as a validation of their concept. I personally don't think the K-S1 would exist if the K-01 had been the abject failure that it is often painted as.

As for coloured DSLRs in general, Canon has been successful with their white Kiss X7 model, so they are doing it. Nikon makes coloured DSLRS and I sometimes see people using them. When I see K-30s (and I see quite a lot in Japan), I find that they are mostly coloured models. The interesting thing is that I mostly see young to middle-aged men using them, and they seem to go for the darker colours, like the stock blue or the dark metallic order colours they made. I also see some women using them, but mainly the white one. But I saw more more women using the older K-r and K-x, which may be something to do with the weight or a preference for a more rounded design.

Remember that a couple of months after the K-01 came out, the K-30 followed with a lot of shared technology and all of the classic features that K-01 was missing. If this happens again and a camera comes out which combined the image quality of the K-S1 and some of the features of the K-3, I don't think there will be much reason to complain about the existence of the K-S1.

[hut234]

It isn't designed, marketed or priced to sell in the USA. I suspect they know it, they know they're not getting in Costco and BestBuy - and they just don't care.

If the product plan required USA volume the pricing strategy would be different.*

But that's one of their huge marketing mistakes and one they've been making for too long. First of all, if it's not designed to sell in the US don't sell it here. It just looks weak when no one buys it anyway due to non-existent marketing and presence in *any* retail stores much less the big chains.

Second, Costco currently (and always does) sells a handful of worthwhile Canon and Nikon DSLR bundles aimed at the same user the K-S1 is, and the bundles, off the top of my head, are at any given time this year from around $700 to $1,300, which is the K-S1's range. I go to Costco for other things but mill around those displays and they sell a lot of cameras and plenty of DSLRs. If the K-S1 is a very good camera, and it's bundle is $800, where should they be selling it if not the stores people go to? What will happen is that the only stores that stock it within 300 miles of NYC will be Adorama and B & H (where the single Pentax side of a kiosk, where everything is displayed, always has the feel if a ghost town, but that's another story). It will be 95% internet sales. If the $800 bundle buyer can't feel it in their hands they will, for most part, buy one they can. So it's another good Pentax camera that takes great pictures for a reasonable price that no one will buy.

And this does affect the ranges above and below that in the US, because the entire brand stops being on anyone's radar except for the long time users. Whatever design, marketing and pricing strategy they have it didn't improve anything in the US in 2013 or 2014, so maybe they should rethink it. Either make a real push on the K-S1 that will reach new users or don't go through the expense of releasing it here at all. Just don't do the same thing yet again: release a model, don't put it in any stores, and don't make salespeople enthusiastic about selling them, but do make 10 different flashy colored models.

If they really just don't care about getting their $800 camera bundles into Best Buy or Costco then they still don't have a marketing strategy at all.

[ogl]

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/support/catalog/pdf/lenses_accessories.pdf

all these lenses are in production and easy to buy in Japan.
maybe, some of lenses or accessories are unavailable out of Japan, but all this things are still in production.

[Mr Spocko]

As far as I'm concerned, there's quite a lot of bling on DSLRs and has been for some time. In that category I include video, articulated screens, scene modes, wi-fi, and special effects like sepia tones. There are too many damn buttons, controls, and menu settings on these things. Net result is, the cops come up to me and ask whether I got a shot of the bank robbers, and my response is "No, they drove off before I finished adjusting the camera."

And lest you think I jest, I spent five weeks on safari in Kenya in 1975, only to fail to get a shot of a leopard on the *one* occasion we saw one, because of the time it took to change the screw-thread lens on my Pentax (from 50mm to a tele). All the pix I did take, however, were correctly exposed as I had one of the first Pentax models that, for a given aperture, chose the shutter speed for you.

My needs are simple: I want control over whether it's shutter or aperture priority, or perhaps fully auto if I'm feeling lazy, whatever ISO values correspond to the old ASA 25/100/400 values, and a couple of lenses that focus sharply and are as free of aberrations as possible. Everything else is superfluous. I'm not even sure I want live view. Just give me the exposure values in the v/f and a focus indication.

It should be reasonably lightweight. And as an old Kodachrome 2 user, it'll probably need to be around 20-24 mpix APS-C. So I have some interest in the K-S1.

Trouble is, just because processors now have trillions of trannies, the marketing boys want to use them.

I'm not talking about "in camera gimmicks or effects" that's not "bling" appearances matter and that's the key issue the design is not something that will sit with most buyers very well


Nikon might do a paint job on a few entry models but they don't mix up the controls or put flashy LED's in cameras

[RonHendriks1966]

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/support/catalog/pdf/lenses_accessories.pdf

all these lenses are in production and easy to buy in Japan.
maybe, some of lenses or accessories are unavailable out of Japan, but all this things are still in production.

Not all of them can be bought overhere.

[monochrome]

Why, then, do you think the don't make all these items available in the USA and EU? Could it be just so expensive to sell here that by the time they would erect all the infrastructure, marketing apparatus, dealer arrangements, production capacity and support functions that it then would not be profitable?

Fiat left the USA because it was too expensive to compete here at their volume - didn't return until they owned Chrysler (and got paid net money to buy it).

I suspect if they could make money selling in Costco they would sell in Costco. Costco is a volume-supporting outlet store for already-known brands.

[RonHendriks1966]

Why, then, do you think the don't make all these items available in the USA and EU? Could it be just so expensive to sell here that by the time they would erect all the infrastructure, marketing apparatus, dealer arrangements, production capacity and support functions that it then would not be profitable?

Fiat left the USA because it was too expensive to compete here at their volume - didn't return until they owned Chrysler (and got paid net money to buy it).

I suspect if they could make money selling in Costco they would sell in Costco. Costco is a volume-supporting outlet store for already-known brands.

I think they should sell all these items in their own Ricoh store. Stocking those items all over Europe won't be profitable I guess.

http://shop-nl.ricoh-imaging.eu/

[NicoleC]

I saw a Pentax bundle in Costco early this year (or maybe late last year). They've tried that venue, at least.

[ogl]

It was the discussion and somebody said that I'm liar that I couldn't buy DA14 or FA35 for several years in Russia, but it's truth. Some lenses and accessories are unavailable at different markets, but it could be found in Japanese photo stores on ebay, for example.
FA35/2 is easy to buy in USA...And e.t.c.

[monochrome]

I saw a Pentax bundle in Costco early this year (or maybe late last year). They've tried that venue, at least.

I believe they are carrying some stuff in Costco Canada as well, or at least on their website. I've seen the Q in target stores but never any of the DSLRs.

I'm curious to know what the items were, and whether they were in stores. If they were first-line products in stores at the start of their product life - that's one thing. If they were K-500 bundled with a 18~55 kit lens - especially one of the older versions of the kit lens - or a Q10/02 - I would call that inventory liquidation. If they were web-only (like the current Target K50 deal) that's a low-cost fulfillment item - buy 'em, store 'em, ship 'em - no muss, no fuss. B&H / Adorama / Amazon on a different website.

The point is, if a Manufacturer wants to negotiate a long-term product placement with one of these companies the Manufacturer must Guarantee delivery of product, on-time, boxed as Advertised, etc - or pay a penalty to the Retailer. These retailer operate on a Profit-per-cubic-foot-per-minute basis. If your product isn't on the shelves because you couldn't produce it - in the volume you agreed to - then the Manufacturer compensates the Retailer for the 'lost opportunity!!

Can you imagine putting the profit from the output of an entire plant at risk if a component supplier screws up? You have a strike? An earthquake or Tsunmai or 100-year flooding happens? Now add the risk of paying a penalty fee for non-fulfillment - and you didn't sell any product on top of paying the penalty!! It isn't just that you didn't get revenue - you also have to PAY OUT MONEY!!

Part of the business decision is buying insurance against delivery failure - add that to the cost of filling the order. Big Box product distribution is much more complex and cost-driven than we can see from the outside.

There are manufacturers who have walked away from Walmart and Target and accepted the decline in volume because it was just to risky and expensive to sell there.

[ElJamoquio]

It's funny, because Pentax implementing MAP supposedly to get IN to target.

I have seen some P&S's there now.

[monochrome]

It's funny, because Pentax implementing MAP supposedly to get IN to target.

I have seen some P&S's there now.

So I guess it wasn't as simple as just establishing a minimum advertised price. Didn't Ricoh configure the K-500 specifically for US and EU BigBox retailers? Isn't that sort of the Nikon/Canon strategy? How'd that work out again? (no more K-500).

A K-50 kit is on the Target website (and apparently available in some stores) at an 'Advertised Price' with a $100 discount applied in the Shopping Cart (and a 'Store Card Discount' in the stores). The online order process boldly states they 'have to show' an advertised price, and discount only in the Cart.

Rioch's current tactics reflect their current place in the Market. That doesn't mean their long-term strategy doesn't include eventually producing high volume at a much larger market share. But they have to get from here to there making a profit along the way.

[hut234]

Why, then, do you think the don't make all these items available in the USA and EU? Could it be just so expensive to sell here that by the time they would erect all the infrastructure, marketing apparatus, dealer arrangements, production capacity and support functions that it then would not be profitable?

I don't know : ) I'm sure that they're doing what works for them based on their capacity and finances. It's just not what makes their American fans happy.

Fiat left the USA because it was too expensive to compete here at their volume - didn't return until they owned Chrysler (and got paid net money to buy it).

I suspect if they could make money selling in Costco they would sell in Costco. Costco is a volume-supporting outlet store for already-known brands.

Also, Costco settles on only very few models from a very small number of manufacturers in any category and purchases a great deal of stock of these. You can see all the cameras they carry in 30 seconds but they sell a ton of cameras. I don't doubt it's highly competitive to get that space both in store and online and that if something doesn't move, or a manufacturer's stuff doesn't move, Costco gives that opening to someone else. Probably requires something (clout, $$$ concessions, future deals,) that Pentax/Ricoh can't provide.

[monochrome]

Probably requires something (clout, $$$ concessions, future deals,) that Pentax/Ricoh can't provide.

Possibly Pentax can't (or doesn't want to at that price) provide enough product at this time to meet Costco's needs - which has been my point throughout this entire discussion.

People in the West should understand that we are quite demanding (that is, the cost to market here is quite demanding) compared to many other markets. When we were the largest market in the world - by quite a large margin - that was the price of entry. Now that we're not the largest market any more some manufacturers simply choose (for the time being) not to play the game.