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View Poll Results: What new products will Pentax unveil at Photokina 2014?
Entry-level DSLR 14444.86%
Mid-range DSLR 7222.43%
High-end APS-C DSLR 329.97%
The Pentax full frame DSLR! 9028.04%
Compact camera 3611.21%
High-end compact camera 5216.20%
K-mount lens 19159.50%
Q-mount lens 11134.58%
645-mount lens 8927.73%
Pentax accessory 5918.38%
New mirrorless camera 4614.33%
Full-frame mirrorless 3410.59%
Other (make a post!) 134.05%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

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09-10-2014, 08:32 PM - 1 Like   #151
mee
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Yes and it has been noticeably quieter in this forum after that news was shared...

09-11-2014, 01:40 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I agree on the mirrorless, but you do understand that Nikon is ABOUT TO RELEASE what most thought the K-1 would be, right? I listed the rumored spec.s for the D750.

Nikon just filled the space that was open for Pentax

D6x0
D7x0
D8x0
Sorry, but i don't spend much time following Nikon's latest FF cams, they've got so many already. I went to the Nikon dpreview forum, and there is some puzzlement, even disappointment there as to where this camera fits. At least the K1 would have a K-mount :-) Unlike many here, i'm not that interested in acquiring a FF - but i do find the market moves to be fascinating.

Last edited by philbaum; 09-11-2014 at 01:46 AM.
09-11-2014, 02:00 AM   #153
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I agree with everything you say, but would like to focus on the following part concerning the binding of customers by locking them in:

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Pentax strategy, like Sony, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and so own are all building system where the entry level bodies are really cheap but the advanced bodies are expensive, and high quality lenses are even more expensives. Once one is invested into the system, it is costly and time consumming to change for another system. This protect their revenue stream as enthousiast and pro already on the system will likely continue on the system is there is no big incentive to do the contrary.

There the exemple of Canon that has not so good high isos sensor for a few years but that still manage to keep the market share because their lenses are great and because again, if you have lot of Canon stuff, the most logical is to continue with Canon.
Yes, locking in consumers that way is a valid strategy if you have a giant conservative userbase, filled with starters, enthusiasts and many pro's on which you can leech for a long while. (Canon) Now... What if you're a really small business with a bad reputation, that had a very rough decennium and you want to attract lots and lots of new customers? Is that strategy then still valid or will it work to your disadvantage? Potential new customers are not familiar with all the pro's of the Pentax system. They don't even see the system in the shops. They see a giant load of shiny CaNiSo gear and maybe, if you're lucky, an entry level Pentax with kitlens. Oh, if they only WOULD see the better part of the system.

This is where the M4/3 conglomerate took a different approach. People with a set of lenses are free to try a different brand of camera and vice versa.

I am 100% certain that if users from another brand would be able to try out the modern Pentax lenses on their camera that they will be very pleasantly surprised by the quality, performance and price. Quickly won over to Pentax by the fact that a dedicated Pentax body will give all those lenses stabilisation.

And vice versa, I am certain that if people with their trusty set of lenses were able to try them out on a Pentax body, they will be very pleasantly surprised as well.

Pentax is not doomed, but they're behind this shroud too few people look behind.

---------- Post added 11-09-14 at 09:10 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I agree on the mirrorless, but you do understand that Nikon is ABOUT TO RELEASE what most thought the K-1 would be, right? I listed the rumored spec.s for the D750.

Nikon just filled the space that was open for Pentax

D6x0
D7x0
D8x0
Eek! Well, if even your positivity starts decreasing then it's serious.

There's still niches left for Pentax... Small ones, but isn't that how they like it?
09-11-2014, 03:14 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I agree on the mirrorless, but you do understand that Nikon is ABOUT TO RELEASE what most thought the K-1 would be, right? I listed the rumored spec.s for the D750.

Nikon just filled the space that was open for Pentax

D6x0
D7x0
D8x0
Then that's easy to counter: put a 36mp sensor, sell it a fair price and you are fine. As of FPS, wifi is not that important, especially for first FF. AF is

09-11-2014, 03:44 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Then that's easy to counter: put a 36mp sensor, sell it a fair price and you are fine. As of FPS, wifi is not that important, especially for first FF. AF is
I agree with the priorities; ie AF > FPS > WiFi, but if the FPS rate is too low it would be shoved aside by new buyers using 'Compare-O-Meters' to make their buying choice by checking off tickboxes in product search web pages.

Pentax know how to swing a MF mirror at 3 fps (645Z) and the K-3 is supposed to do 8.3 fps.

Given the limiting factor in fps is actually AF performance - since there is no need to actually fire the shutter if AF isn't tracking (MF aside) - then a decent AF improvement should allow for something like 6 or 7 fps.

So perhaps only a small AF improvement is really needed? Unless to make the jump they need to be better at predictive/3D AF. I have no idea how the K-3 does it today.
09-11-2014, 03:53 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
For music, it would be the difference between having to pay and keep 100 persons for being able to listen to any music performance opposed to MP3 readers...
That digital vs analog music analogy makes no sense.
I'll make a comparison illustrating my point: an old phonograph is analogue and is crap quality. A digital 7.1 DXD is of extremely good quality.

This is kind of statement is the kind of marketing material used by corporations. Seems a lot of people here just eat them at lunch.
Digital being a loss of quality (JPEG) and analog being "RAW" is of the same kind.

Pointless.
09-11-2014, 04:01 AM   #157
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Analogies rarely makes sense They're mostly used when the logic cannot work with the product being discussed (e.g. cameras), so instead of rethinking the logic, one would find completely different types of products for which the logic would somewhat apply.
09-11-2014, 04:20 AM   #158
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09-11-2014, 05:14 AM   #159
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To infinity and beyond

I - for one - expect Ricoh/Pentax to continue to grow the brand. They have a bigger lineup of DSLRs now, than they've had in a long long time.

It is evolution - don't expect revolution!

They are creating momentum - just wait and see.
09-11-2014, 05:26 AM   #160
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The need a Ricoh GR and GXR mirrorless and premium compact successor that plays perfect with mobile OS's.
09-11-2014, 06:02 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yes and it has been noticeably quieter in this forum after that news was shared...
I think on no basis other than speculation they knew months ago, which is why some poster last spring (who had regularly opined it was a new day for Pentax with all sizes in the catalog) suddenly changed his story to "all 645z, all the time" (and I note the 'news' was 'no plan to market a DSLR FF at this time').

Last edited by monochrome; 09-11-2014 at 06:24 AM.
09-11-2014, 06:19 AM   #162
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Spring is a very good time to re-evaluate your opinions
09-11-2014, 06:42 AM   #163
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With each passing spring I add wait.
09-11-2014, 02:06 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
That digital vs analog music analogy makes no sense.
I'll make a comparison illustrating my point: an old phonograph is analogue and is crap quality. A digital 7.1 DXD is of extremely good quality.

This is kind of statement is the kind of marketing material used by corporations. Seems a lot of people here just eat them at lunch.
Digital being a loss of quality (JPEG) and analog being "RAW" is of the same kind.

Pointless.
It was purelly ironic comparison as for me the A7 familly is not revolutionnary at all. it is maybe an interresting compromise and apparently what many do is using the thing to do manual focussing with lenses of other system. The thing is there almost no lense available to the system, and the one available while looking good are slow. More there is not much choice.
09-11-2014, 02:20 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
(and I note the 'news' was 'no plan to market a DSLR FF at this time').
I take it as corporate speak for "You don't have a need to know, so we will just tell you we aren't doing that so you'll stop asking."

Theoretically, they could still launch it tomorrow. Not that I'm expecting that to occur....


However, I just bought a sigma ultrawide though, so I suspect they will be releasing a new ultrawide as a result of my purchase.
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