Official Photokina Predictions Thread

**Belnan** · 09-08-2014, 08:28 AM

Maybe a mid range DSLR, a hybrid of the K-3 and K-S1. Ideally something a little smaller than the K-3 with the aesthetics to match the limited lenses.

thibs · 09-08-2014, 08:35 AM

Yeah, Nikon should stop producing/rebadging Toshiba (and Sony) cameras.

Nicolas06 · 09-08-2014, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

Why listen to the people that preferred cars of horses? Digital audio over analog?

No no, the Sony A7 is so revolutionnary in doing the same as all P&S have done by remove the OVF that it give the same difference as horses to instant teleportation !

For music, it would be the difference between having to pay and keep 100 persons for being able to listen to any music performance opposed to MP3 readers...

**monochrome** · 09-08-2014, 02:54 PM - **1 Like**

^^^^ Uhmm??

**monochrome** · 09-08-2014, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

The sensor is just a part that converts photons to a digital signal. In theory, it's interchangeable with other suppliers and therefore is not what makes "a Pentax a Pentax". OTOH, the K-mount is what defines the whole Pentax DSLR ecosystem. Without it, what's a Pentax?

Precisely. Pentax dSLR Distinctions - per Ricoh:

K-mount
100% Optical Viewfinder
IBIS

These are their markers. Everything else is line segmenting.

robjmitchell · 09-08-2014, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

Why listen to the people that preferred cars of horses? Digital audio over analog?

It should be pointed out the Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range. Its like the difference between a RAW file and a downsized Jpeg!

wed7 · 09-08-2014, 05:00 PM

No need for predictions, Ricoh played all their cards, from 645z, QS, Gunmetal K-3, KS and then some lenses

dcBear78 · 09-08-2014, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by wed7

No need for predictions, Ricoh played all their cards, from 645z, QS, Gunmetal K-3, KS and then some lenses

Sad, but I'm starting to think this is true.

SpecialK · 09-08-2014, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by robjmitchell

It should be pointed out the Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range. Its like the difference between a RAW file and a downsized Jpeg!

But some people can not tell, or do not notice, or do not mind, the difference. Oh, Photokina? Snore...

wullemaha · 09-08-2014, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by robjmitchell

Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range

...ähm? Can you elaborate on that?
"Storage solution" as in comparing "a record vs. having the musician playing live next to you" - yes, there the quality drops of course.

But I hope you do not suggest that e.g. vinyl LPs played through an analog amplifier have better audio quality than a CD or MP3...

P.s.: I do collect vinyl, but am honest enough to myself to know it is for the sake of ritual, not for any technical reason.

robjmitchell · 09-08-2014, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by wullemaha

...ähm? Can you elaborate on that?
"Storage solution" as in comparing "a record vs. having the musician playing live next to you" - yes, there the quality drops of course.

But I hope you do not suggest that e.g. vinyl LPs played through an analog amplifier have better audio quality than a CD or MP3...

P.s.: I do collect vinyl, but am honest enough to myself to know it is for the sake of ritual, not for any technical reason.

Indeed a new vinyl LP played through a high quality amp/speakers is noticeably better than with a cd/mp3. Of course your output system has to be able to out resolve the input signal to notice a difference!
Just think about the process of digital music.
First you take an analog waveform and convert it to digital signal, destroying fine detail. Then they compress the digital signal and cut off frequencies destroying dynamic range in the process. Then the compressed file is converted back to an analog signal to be played by your amp and speakers!
The problem with vinyl is they degrade every time you play them, hence digital works better for storage and distribution at the expense of some quality loss.

lukulele · 09-08-2014, 06:45 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

Precisely. Pentax dSLR Distinctions - per Ricoh:

K-mount
100% Optical Viewfinder
IBIS

These are their markers. Everything else is line segmenting.

Mono,
IBIS would be a terrific color!

Smeggypants · 09-08-2014, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

N. I would simply love to see Pentax using that super sensitive A7S sensor in a Pentax DSLR.

So would I

wullemaha · 09-08-2014, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by robjmitchell

Indeed a new vinyl LP played through a high quality amp/speakers is noticeably better than with a cd/mp3. Of course your output system has to be able to out resolve the input signal to notice a difference!
Just think about the process of digital music.
First you take an analog waveform and convert it to digital signal, destroying fine detail. Then they compress the digital signal and cut off frequencies destroying dynamic range in the process. Then the compressed file is converted back to an analog signal to be played by your amp and speakers!
The problem with vinyl is they degrade every time you play them, hence digital works better for storage and distribution at the expense of some quality loss.

Sorry, that's just not true. Of course I agree that theoretically, vinyl would not have the bit-resolution-problem as it is analog, but in reality it has less dynamic range than a CD.
Being both musician and engineer, and having worked on some recordings (recording, mixing, mastering) I still love vinyl, but it is in no way close to what digital can do in terms of audio quality.
Of course there is a debate ongoing whether vinyl sounds better than CD, simply because it sounds different (mostly due to mastering), and I think that this is a very valid discussion. Of course it always comes down to personal taste. But no one I know argues from a scientific standpoint, that vinyl is more true to the original than CD - that just simply is not true.

I think this sums it up very nice and simply without becoming too technical:
Vinyl's great, but it's not better than CDs - Vox

And on a non-scientific note: ever wonder why blues/rock/metal/etc guys still love to buy vinyl, while no fan of classical music would ever go back to vinyl after having a taste of CD grade quality?

Smeggypants · 09-08-2014, 07:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by robjmitchell

It should be pointed out the Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range. Its like the difference between a RAW file and a downsized Jpeg!

I'm afraid that isn't true in the slightest.

Digital audio is capable of technical audio quality that far exceeds any analog audio recording system is capable of in both frequency response, distortion levels and dynamic range. I don't know of any analog system that can match,for example, 24bit 96kHz. which has a freq response of 48kHz, dynamic range of 144dB and distortion not even your dog can hear

View Poll Results: What new products will Pentax unveil at Photokina 2014?
Entry-level DSLR	144	44.86%
Mid-range DSLR	72	22.43%
High-end APS-C DSLR	32	9.97%
The Pentax full frame DSLR!	90	28.04%
Compact camera	36	11.21%
High-end compact camera	52	16.20%
K-mount lens	191	59.50%
Q-mount lens	111	34.58%
645-mount lens	89	27.73%
Pentax accessory	59	18.38%
New mirrorless camera	46	14.33%
Full-frame mirrorless	34	10.59%
Other (make a post!)	13	4.05%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

09-08-2014, 02:56 PM	#110
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by IchabodCrane The sensor is just a part that converts photons to a digital signal. In theory, it's interchangeable with other suppliers and therefore is not what makes "a Pentax a Pentax". OTOH, the K-mount is what defines the whole Pentax DSLR ecosystem. Without it, what's a Pentax? Precisely. Pentax dSLR Distinctions - per Ricoh: K-mount 100% Optical Viewfinder IBIS These are their markers. Everything else is line segmenting.

09-08-2014, 06:45 PM - 1 Like	#117
lukulele Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Blue Ridge Escarpment, North Carolina, US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,850	Originally posted by monochrome Precisely. Pentax dSLR Distinctions - per Ricoh: K-mount 100% Optical Viewfinder IBIS These are their markers. Everything else is line segmenting. Mono, IBIS would be a terrific color! Last edited by lukulele; 08-12-2015 at 05:07 PM.

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09-08-2014, 08:28 AM	#106
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Maybe a mid range DSLR, a hybrid of the K-3 and K-S1. Ideally something a little smaller than the K-3 with the aesthetics to match the limited lenses.

09-08-2014, 08:35 AM	#107
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Yeah, Nikon should stop producing/rebadging Toshiba (and Sony) cameras.

09-08-2014, 01:28 PM	#108
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Clavius Why listen to the people that preferred cars of horses? Digital audio over analog? No no, the Sony A7 is so revolutionnary in doing the same as all P&S have done by remove the OVF that it give the same difference as horses to instant teleportation ! For music, it would be the difference between having to pay and keep 100 persons for being able to listen to any music performance opposed to MP3 readers...

09-08-2014, 02:54 PM - 1 Like	#109
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	^^^^ Uhmm??

09-08-2014, 03:44 PM	#111
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by Clavius Why listen to the people that preferred cars of horses? Digital audio over analog? It should be pointed out the Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range. Its like the difference between a RAW file and a downsized Jpeg!

09-08-2014, 05:00 PM	#112
wed7 Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 1,421	No need for predictions, Ricoh played all their cards, from 645z, QS, Gunmetal K-3, KS and then some lenses

09-08-2014, 05:27 PM	#113
dcBear78 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Gladstone, QLD Photos: Gallery Posts: 823	Originally posted by wed7 No need for predictions, Ricoh played all their cards, from 645z, QS, Gunmetal K-3, KS and then some lenses Sad, but I'm starting to think this is true.

09-08-2014, 05:35 PM	#114
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Originally posted by robjmitchell It should be pointed out the Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range. Its like the difference between a RAW file and a downsized Jpeg! But some people can not tell, or do not notice, or do not mind, the difference. Oh, Photokina? Snore...

09-08-2014, 05:41 PM	#115
wullemaha Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Tokyo Posts: 503	Originally posted by robjmitchell Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range ...ähm? Can you elaborate on that? "Storage solution" as in comparing "a record vs. having the musician playing live next to you" - yes, there the quality drops of course. But I hope you do not suggest that e.g. vinyl LPs played through an analog amplifier have better audio quality than a CD or MP3... P.s.: I do collect vinyl, but am honest enough to myself to know it is for the sake of ritual, not for any technical reason.

09-08-2014, 06:33 PM	#116
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by wullemaha ...ähm? Can you elaborate on that? "Storage solution" as in comparing "a record vs. having the musician playing live next to you" - yes, there the quality drops of course. But I hope you do not suggest that e.g. vinyl LPs played through an analog amplifier have better audio quality than a CD or MP3... P.s.: I do collect vinyl, but am honest enough to myself to know it is for the sake of ritual, not for any technical reason. Indeed a new vinyl LP played through a high quality amp/speakers is noticeably better than with a cd/mp3. Of course your output system has to be able to out resolve the input signal to notice a difference! Just think about the process of digital music. First you take an analog waveform and convert it to digital signal, destroying fine detail. Then they compress the digital signal and cut off frequencies destroying dynamic range in the process. Then the compressed file is converted back to an analog signal to be played by your amp and speakers! The problem with vinyl is they degrade every time you play them, hence digital works better for storage and distribution at the expense of some quality loss.

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09-08-2014, 06:48 PM	#118
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by Clavius N. I would simply love to see Pentax using that super sensitive A7S sensor in a Pentax DSLR. So would I

09-08-2014, 07:10 PM	#119
wullemaha Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Tokyo Posts: 503	Originally posted by robjmitchell Indeed a new vinyl LP played through a high quality amp/speakers is noticeably better than with a cd/mp3. Of course your output system has to be able to out resolve the input signal to notice a difference! Just think about the process of digital music. First you take an analog waveform and convert it to digital signal, destroying fine detail. Then they compress the digital signal and cut off frequencies destroying dynamic range in the process. Then the compressed file is converted back to an analog signal to be played by your amp and speakers! The problem with vinyl is they degrade every time you play them, hence digital works better for storage and distribution at the expense of some quality loss. Sorry, that's just not true. Of course I agree that theoretically, vinyl would not have the bit-resolution-problem as it is analog, but in reality it has less dynamic range than a CD. Being both musician and engineer, and having worked on some recordings (recording, mixing, mastering) I still love vinyl, but it is in no way close to what digital can do in terms of audio quality. Of course there is a debate ongoing whether vinyl sounds better than CD, simply because it sounds different (mostly due to mastering), and I think that this is a very valid discussion. Of course it always comes down to personal taste. But no one I know argues from a scientific standpoint, that vinyl is more true to the original than CD - that just simply is not true. I think this sums it up very nice and simply without becoming too technical: Vinyl's great, but it's not better than CDs - Vox And on a non-scientific note: ever wonder why blues/rock/metal/etc guys still love to buy vinyl, while no fan of classical music would ever go back to vinyl after having a taste of CD grade quality?

09-08-2014, 07:28 PM - 1 Like	#120
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by robjmitchell It should be pointed out the Digital audio is a storage solution and it degrades quality due to both compression and dynamic range. Its like the difference between a RAW file and a downsized Jpeg! I'm afraid that isn't true in the slightest. Digital audio is capable of technical audio quality that far exceeds any analog audio recording system is capable of in both frequency response, distortion levels and dynamic range. I don't know of any analog system that can match,for example, 24bit 96kHz. which has a freq response of 48kHz, dynamic range of 144dB and distortion not even your dog can hear