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08-31-2014, 09:37 AM - 1 Like   #166
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1% more sales because of wifi = .01*300,000*$600 = $1.8 million made.

08-31-2014, 09:38 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Nothing isn't $2, but $2 is nothing.

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Indeed. If that particular device is suitable for camera WiFi (i.e. it meets the voltage, size, space, temperature, heat emission and a number of other technical requirements.

If its $2 why is an EyeFi Mobi $50 - $90 at B&H? Eye-Fi Pro is twice that.

Hint: According to IchabodCrane the real cost is $10 out the factory door. That adds $20 to the retail price. What feature of a Pentax camera should they delete to substitute WiFi? Pick one $10 cost feature ($20 Retail) and tell me why you'd rather have WiFi than that feature.

Hint: (Maybe) Metal Frame?
Hint: (Maybe) High-Grade polycarbonate body versus nylon?
Hint: (Maybe) Prime M II processor?
Hint: (Maybe) a combination of many things such as those three? At what point is it no longer a Pentax - just another cheap Canon?

Pentax decided the Flucard for PENTAX combines the real utilities of a hinged screen and connectivity in one optional device.

It's similar to offering an optional extended warranty for an additional $20. I can choose whether I want to take the risk or save the money.

I'm good with that.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-31-2014 at 09:56 AM.
08-31-2014, 09:40 AM   #168
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Wi-Fi would have been attractive on this camera. I use a Eye-Fi and would rather see it built into the camera. Battery issues aren't a big deal if you can turn transfer off in the software. I doubt the added cost would be much.

Touchscreen not so much. Some things in life are better with less menu's to dig through to change settings. Old school dials still trump touchscreens for ergonomics in a camera imo. I'm much younger than most of you. I'm curious to see what they did for the handling with this K-S1 when it's reviewed. Dpreview didn't seem to hot on it but other sites like imaging review will do a better job reviewing the camera. If they minimized menu digging it might be a simple slick interface which would be a big plus for the camera.

Any other camera's out there use the 20mp sensor in this KS-1?
08-31-2014, 09:52 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
Any other camera's out there use the 20mp sensor in this KS-1?
Sony A3000 A5000 and A58.

08-31-2014, 09:54 AM   #170
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Yes, Sony A3000 and A5000 IIRC (but of course, I can't say it's the same sensor - it could be a newer revision). (L.E. I was a bit slow - and A58, thanks, D1N0)

DPReview... their precious click counters won't work on the K-S1's Hand-On - so it doesn't appear in the "Most Popular Cameras" section, where every new ILC announcement will be present, at least for a week or two. And guess what, they don't care; after all it's just a Pentax. Yet they will use "metrics" to delay the review some 6-8 month, that's if they will make a proper review.
Sorry, I don't value their opinions that much.
08-31-2014, 09:58 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes, Sony A3000 and A5000 IIRC (but of course, I can't say it's the same sensor - it could be a newer revision). (L.E. I was a bit slow - and A58, thanks, D1N0)

DPReview... their precious click counters won't work on the K-S1's Hand-On - so it doesn't appear in the "Most Popular Cameras" section, where every new ILC announcement will be present, at least for a week or two. And guess what, they don't care; after all it's just a Pentax. Yet they will use "metrics" to delay the review some 6-8 month, that's if they will make a proper review.
Sorry, I don't value their opinions that much.

I agree they delay reviews. I prefer other sources like imaging resource personally. I think they are more responsive over at DPreview to the higher paying advertising customers, ie Canon, Nikon whose cameras are reviewed promptly.

Looks like this sensor has been out for a bit, Pentax seems to always get more from the same Sony sensor than the other brands do.
08-31-2014, 09:59 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
Touchscreen not so much. Some things in life are better with less menu's to dig through to change settings. Old school dials still trump touchscreens for ergonomics in a camera imo. I'm much younger than most of you. I'm curious to see what they did for the handling with this K-S1 when it's reviewed. Dpreview didn't seem to hot on it but other sites like imaging review will do a better job reviewing the camera. If they minimized menu digging it might be a simple slick interface which would be a big plus for the camera.
Agree... touch screen is good only if it applies to pin-pointing where to focus on; using this feature to navigate menu system is just painful (I have seen T4i users struggling with that).

---------- Post added 08-31-2014 at 01:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Sorry, I don't value their opinions that much.
I don't value much their opinions either; but many Canikon users treat them as the only reliable source of information - "if they said it is good for them, it must be good".
08-31-2014, 10:03 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Agree... touch screen is good only if it applies to pin-pointing where to focus on; using this feature to navigate menu system is just painful (I have seen T4i users struggling with that).
I work in aviation and it's the same. Touch screen is not a good idea for that application either. Tactile feel of knobs and buttons works with muscle memory offering faster response for the user. This is just what you want when something is happening quickly so you can switch settings and get your shot. Fiddling with a touchscreen and menu diving just leads to a lot of frustration and flying cameras.

08-31-2014, 10:05 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Indeed. If that particular device is suitable for camera WiFi (i.e. it meets the voltage, size, space, temperature, heat emission and a number of other technical requirements.

If its $2 why is an EyeFi Mobi $50 - $90 at B&H? Eye-Fi Pro is twice that.

Hint: According to IchabodCrane the real cost is $10 out the factory door. That adds $20 to the retail price. What feature of a Pentax camera should they delete to substitute WiFi? Pick one $10 cost feature ($20 Retail) and tell me why you'd rather have WiFi than that feature.

Hint: (Maybe) Metal Frame?
Hint: (Maybe) High-Grade polycarbonate body versus nylon?
Hint: (Maybe) Prime M II processor?
Hint: (Maybe) a combination of many things such as those three? At what point is it no longer a Pentax - just another cheap Canon?

Pentax decided the Flucard for PENTAX combines the real utilities of a hinged screen and connectivity in one optional device.

It's similar to offering an optional extended warranty for an additional $20. I can choose whether I want to take the risk or save the money.

I'm good with that.
I don't need hints.

The EyeFi is $45 because it has memory, it is a different form factor, has to have a less optimal interface, lower sales.

I actually don't want WiFi, myself. But I think it's silly to preclude it when frickin' washing machines and toasters have it.
08-31-2014, 10:36 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Indeed. If that particular device is suitable for camera WiFi (i.e. it meets the voltage, size, space, temperature, heat emission and a number of other technical requirements.

If its $2 why is an EyeFi Mobi $50 - $90 at B&H? Eye-Fi Pro is twice that.

Hint: According to IchabodCrane the real cost is $10 out the factory door. That adds $20 to the retail price. What feature of a Pentax camera should they delete to substitute WiFi? Pick one $10 cost feature ($20 Retail) and tell me why you'd rather have WiFi than that feature.

Hint: (Maybe) Metal Frame?
Hint: (Maybe) High-Grade polycarbonate body versus nylon?
Hint: (Maybe) Prime M II processor?
Hint: (Maybe) a combination of many things such as those three? At what point is it no longer a Pentax - just another cheap Canon?

Pentax decided the Flucard for PENTAX combines the real utilities of a hinged screen and connectivity in one optional device.

It's similar to offering an optional extended warranty for an additional $20. I can choose whether I want to take the risk or save the money.

I'm good with that.
That's not what I said and hope that's not what others thought I meant. Here's my original comment:

" And what does wifi add to the cost of a camera... $5, $10?"

For all I know the answer might be $2 or $20 but probably closer to $2. Regardless, it must be very low and I doubt not much more than a bunch of LED lights on the grip. If you had to choose, it seems obvious which of those options is more useful to the target market.


08-31-2014, 10:54 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Indeed. If that particular device is suitable for camera WiFi (i.e. it meets the voltage, size, space, temperature, heat emission and a number of other technical requirements.

If its $2 why is an EyeFi Mobi $50 - $90 at B&H? Eye-Fi Pro is twice that.

Hint: According to IchabodCrane the real cost is $10 out the factory door. That adds $20 to the retail price. What feature of a Pentax camera should they delete to substitute WiFi? Pick one $10 cost feature ($20 Retail) and tell me why you'd rather have WiFi than that feature.

Hint: (Maybe) Metal Frame?
Hint: (Maybe) High-Grade polycarbonate body versus nylon?
Hint: (Maybe) Prime M II processor?
Hint: (Maybe) a combination of many things such as those three? At what point is it no longer a Pentax - just another cheap Canon?

Pentax decided the Flucard for PENTAX combines the real utilities of a hinged screen and connectivity in one optional device.

It's similar to offering an optional extended warranty for an additional $20. I can choose whether I want to take the risk or save the money.

I'm good with that.
Leaving off wifi is a mistake across the range. Wouldn't it be simpler just to admit it? Palming off the issue to add-on cards is a cop out and does nothing to enhance Pentax's rep as a company that gets it. Besides, if they did actually get it then they would never have teamed up with Flu for smartphone stuff, or at least got them to change the name, knowing that their brand name is in English about as unfortunate as you can get. What are they going to do next? Leave off camera straps on the grounds they cannot afford them but team up instead with outfit called Ringpiece? The K-S1 has many very good things going for it but no wifi isn't really one of them. And a moment's reflection would suggest that saying a smartphone is an adequate substitute for a tilt-swivel LCD doesn't add up. Ricoh just don't want to do it, is all. No need to buy into their excuses. If Ricoh want to put up with the likely result - lower sales - that shouldn't be our problem.
08-31-2014, 11:12 AM   #177
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DReview says that camera has no metal frame.
08-31-2014, 11:18 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
That's not what I said and hope that's not what others thought I meant. Here's my original comment:

" And what does wifi add to the cost of a camera... $5, $10?"

For all I know the answer might be $2 or $20 but probably closer to $2. Regardless, it must be very low and I doubt not much more than a bunch of LED lights on the grip. If you had to choose, it seems obvious which of those options is more useful to the target market.



A few dollars is very small, but the LED's cost even less. Think on the order of ~$.10 per.

---------- Post added 08-31-14 at 11:20 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Leaving off wifi is a mistake across the range. Wouldn't it be simpler just to admit it? Palming off the issue to add-on cards is a cop out and does nothing to enhance Pentax's rep as a company that gets it. Besides, if they did actually get it then they would never have teamed up with Flu for smartphone stuff, or at least got them to change the name, knowing that their brand name is in English about as unfortunate as you can get. What are they going to do next? Leave off camera straps on the grounds they cannot afford them but team up instead with outfit called Ringpiece? The K-S1 has many very good things going for it but no wifi isn't really one of them. And a moment's reflection would suggest that saying a smartphone is an adequate substitute for a tilt-swivel LCD doesn't add up. Ricoh just don't want to do it, is all. No need to buy into their excuses. If Ricoh want to put up with the likely result - lower sales - that shouldn't be our problem.

If this is the camera of the "selfie"* generation, then no wifi would be worse than leaving off both dials (they already left off one). The whole point of those pictures is sharing.




*good god I hate that word
08-31-2014, 12:23 PM   #179
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@mecrox :
I don't think you can say that Ricoh left off wi-fi.
Moreover, the flucard alternative like build in wi-fi or Eye-fi device are software-dependent, and my experience is not that good e.g. with Samsung's remote device nor android's "easyshare" autonom eye-fi card+soft : those two alternatives are basically bugging when you update android OS, even after upgrading the dedicated softs...
Customers need first of all working and reliable systems.
Not all of them are geeks

Last edited by Zygonyx; 08-31-2014 at 12:36 PM.
08-31-2014, 12:51 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
@mecrox :
I don't think you can say that Ricoh left off wi-fi.
Moreover, the flucard alternative like build in wi-fi or Eye-fi device are software-dependent, and my experience is not that good e.g. with Samsung's remote device nor android's "easyshare" autonom eye-fi card+soft : those two alternatives are basically bugging when you update android OS, even after upgrading the dedicated softs...
Customers need first of all working and reliable systems.
Not all of them are geeks
So are you saying that the Japanese imaging industry is unable to implement a working wifi solution in-camera? No brand has working wifi worth the name? Always possible I realise, especially with Apple involved, but ..

How about the Pentax Crustie, an attractive wickerwork basket available in 127 color combinations in which you can keep your very own carrier pigeon ($150 extra) for immediate despatch of those fun party pictures to social media? For only $150 extra, you can upgrade to a pigeon capable of carrying video files.
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