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08-29-2014, 05:09 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by fast50 Quote
I tried a K-S1 at my local dealer and thought the mode wheel quite good for the target user, but not for me as I like to have two dials.
The 4-way buttons inside the dial were fiddly and felt cheap and I didn't care for the grip which was small and uncomfortable. But the menus work well with the mode dial.
I picked K-50 over 100D partially because of the extra dial available.

08-29-2014, 05:22 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by fast50 Quote
Never heard of Ricoh reps travelling around stores showing new products?
Haha, no, I haven't!

Just a joke...barely.
08-29-2014, 06:32 AM - 1 Like   #108
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It's fine if the K-S1 isn't for me but for those used to working with "mobile interfaces." What concerns me is that this new camera appears to represent muddled thinking and/or a half-hearted effort. No touchscreen? No native wifi? Exactly what mobile-interface user will be interested in this? Given Ricoh's stated mission for the K-S1, I honestly don't understand how the company thinks this is a finished product.

And, to be totally honest, it is this move that has me wondering about the future of Pentax for the first time. Up until now, I had been telling my fellow Pentaxians to be patient and wait a few years until Ricoh gets its act together and begins producing the good stuff. Again, it's fine if this camera isn't for me. It's good to try to expand one's customer base. But the K-S1 demonstrates that Ricoh doesn't have a clue about next-generation anything and hints at a frightening line of thinking in terms of product development. After seeing this, what can one expect from another try at mirrorless by the company?
08-29-2014, 06:34 AM - 1 Like   #109
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Doooooommmmed.

It's like clockwork.

08-29-2014, 10:44 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-50 is 470 USD for body...K-S1 is 750 USD... I understand nothing in marketing
K-50 is $700 body only, K-S1 is $750 both body only, both MSRP. I don't understand marketing either, and do not disagree that the price makes little sense. But it is NOT significantly different than the MSRP of the K-50.

Price high to allow retailers to mark down? Price high to take advantage of early adopters? Price high so people think it competes with higher end cameras? (Some people do buy based on price alone). Price high to make corporate numbers look good? Who knows.
08-29-2014, 11:37 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
K-50 is $700 body only, K-S1 is $750 both body only, both MSRP. I don't understand marketing either, and do not disagree that the price makes little sense. But it is NOT significantly different than the MSRP of the K-50.

Price high to allow retailers to mark down? Price high to take advantage of early adopters? Price high so people think it competes with higher end cameras? (Some people do buy based on price alone). Price high to make corporate numbers look good? Who knows.
K-50 is 449 at amazon right now, not 700 for the body. With the 18-55 and 55-200 it's 660, far better deal than the K-S1. I doubt the 20mp sensor will be a huge improvement over the 16mp. The K-3's 24mp sensor is worse for dynamic range and about equal for iso.


QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
When I see some DxOMark tests for the Fuji, I will believe that.
You need DXO? Go look at imaging resource or dpreviews comparison tools. I own the K5 and the X100s. The fuji 16mp outperforms the K5. In raw it's close to iso 6400. In Jpeg the Fuji dramatically beats the Pentax. The K3 is about on par with the K5 series (maybe a bit worse iso).

Imaging Resource "Comparometer"
08-29-2014, 12:55 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
K-50 is 449 at amazon right now, not 700 for the body.
Please read before posting. K-50 is $700 MSRP and the K-S1 is $749 MSRP. Street price currently is quite different. But it is not a valid argument to compare street price of a camera almost ready to be replaced with the MSRP of one that has not even been released yet. Last generation of any product is always a better deal than a newly released one. Not arguing that $749 is a good or bad price, it is just MSRP and you have to compare apples to apples.
08-29-2014, 01:05 PM - 1 Like   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Please read before posting. K-50 is $700 MSRP and the K-S1 is $749 MSRP. Street price currently is quite different. But it is not a valid argument to compare street price of a camera almost ready to be replaced with the MSRP of one that has not even been released yet. Last generation of any product is always a better deal than a newly released one. Not arguing that $749 is a good or bad price, it is just MSRP and you have to compare apples to apples.
K-50 and K-500 are current entry/mid level cameras. Maybe this one will MSRP for 750 and street for the same price which would make it more competitive. If they discontinue the K-50/500 for this K-S1 that would probably be a silly move. Pentax weather sealing and feature rich entry cameras are what attracts people to the brand vs Nikon/Canon who water down the entry level to avoid cannibalism of the upper camera's.

It's a shame they didn't at least weather seal this one for the same price as the K-50.

08-29-2014, 01:21 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
You need DXO? Go look at imaging resource or dpreviews comparison tools. I own the K5 and the X100s. The fuji 16mp outperforms the K5. In raw it's close to iso 6400. In Jpeg the Fuji dramatically beats the Pentax. The K3 is about on par with the K5 series (maybe a bit worse iso).

Imaging Resource "Comparometer"
If other Fujis are like X100 their ISO is a joke (or a lie):
Tests and reviews for the camera Fujifilm FinePix X100 Measurements - DxOMark
08-29-2014, 01:40 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
K-50 and K-500 are current entry/mid level cameras. Maybe this one will MSRP for 750 and street for the same price which would make it more competitive. If they discontinue the K-50/500 for this K-S1 that would probably be a silly move. Pentax weather sealing and feature rich entry cameras are what attracts people to the brand vs Nikon/Canon who water down the entry level to avoid cannibalism of the upper camera's. It's a shame they didn't at least weather seal this one for the same price as the K-50.
My opinion is this (K-S1) is not a replacement for the traditional low end line (k-30/k50) but a completely new direction. I am going to speculate that this is the beginning of a new line from Ricoh and will have follow on models in the future as a separate line if it is successful.

We keep trying to put things into niches (entry level, mid-range, semi-pro) whatever. But a manufacturer that does that is just following the herd, not breaking new ground. Like it or hate it, this camera breaks new ground for Ricoh. We look at things through our particular bias set and wonder what is Ricoh doing? They are not looking at the world through the same glasses we are. Only time will tell who had the better vision, but most of the opinions I see on this forum simply demand a 30 year old film camera with a sensor in it. That's been done.

Ricoh keeps looking for things that have NOT been done. Some products will be winners some will not. Pundits all predicted that k-01 would fail, maybe it did since it is gone with no follow up. Pundits all predicted silly Q would fail, yet we are now with the 4th camera in that line with a good number of lenses and more promised.

So who knows what will work and what will not. I do know that unless you try something you cannot possibly succeed. Ricoh is trying.
08-29-2014, 03:47 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
You need DXO? Go look at imaging resource or dpreviews comparison tools.
I just need data. Looking at mysteriously cooked JPG's isn't the same.

Plus the way Fuji calculates their ISO's, as many have noted, is of concern.

Furthermore, as I discovered myself, Fuji's total lack of openness about the EV sensitivity specifications of their exposure and AF systems in all their recent cameras - in contrast to every other brand - makes me sceptical of anything Fuji.
08-29-2014, 06:41 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If other Fujis are like X100 their ISO is a joke (or a lie):
Tests and reviews for the camera Fujifilm FinePix X100 Measurements - DxOMark
The X100 and X100s use different sensors. This is like saying the K7 (scored a 63) has horrible iso performance so how can the K5 be good?
08-29-2014, 06:47 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-50 is 470 USD for body...K-S1 is 750 USD... I understand nothing in marketing
K50 is over two years old (k30 in a rounded body).
08-29-2014, 06:55 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
But the K-S1 demonstrates that Ricoh doesn't have a clue about next-generation anything and hints at a frightening line of thinking in terms of product development. After seeing this, what can one expect from another try at mirrorless by the company?
FirstWorlderBias? (DK because youa re location anonymous).

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
My opinion is this (K-S1) is not a replacement for the traditional low end line (k-30/k50) but a completely new direction. I am going to speculate that this is the beginning of a new line from Ricoh and will have follow on models in the future as a separate line if it is successful.
I think you are spot-on. The whole game is to get more K-mounts (and Q-mounts) into the installed base. Looks to me like -S1 is a design identifier that will denote a line identity. There will probably be a K50 replacement. A K500 replacement is more doubtful since it was intended just for BestBuy/Target/Costco and EU - and I don't think they really bought into the idea.
08-29-2014, 06:59 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I just need data. Looking at mysteriously cooked JPG's isn't the same.

Plus the way Fuji calculates their ISO's, as many have noted, is of concern.

Furthermore, as I discovered myself, Fuji's total lack of openness about the EV sensitivity specifications of their exposure and AF systems in all their recent cameras - in contrast to every other brand - makes me sceptical of anything Fuji.
When I set both camera's to identical settings the Fuji puts out results that are better than what I get strait from the camera on my K5. However this is "mysteriously cooked" is irrelevant if the results are better. Lightroom is "mysteriously cooking" results as well. ISO shows no difference between my K5 and X100s when settings are the same so I don't see the concern there. Maybe that happened in the past but doesn't seem to be the case on mine.
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