Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-29-2014, 12:55 PM   #106
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,345
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
K-50 is 449 at amazon right now, not 700 for the body.
Please read before posting. K-50 is $700 MSRP and the K-S1 is $749 MSRP. Street price currently is quite different. But it is not a valid argument to compare street price of a camera almost ready to be replaced with the MSRP of one that has not even been released yet. Last generation of any product is always a better deal than a newly released one. Not arguing that $749 is a good or bad price, it is just MSRP and you have to compare apples to apples.

08-29-2014, 01:05 PM - 1 Like   #107
Veteran Member
LeeRunge's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Alabama
Posts: 446
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Please read before posting. K-50 is $700 MSRP and the K-S1 is $749 MSRP. Street price currently is quite different. But it is not a valid argument to compare street price of a camera almost ready to be replaced with the MSRP of one that has not even been released yet. Last generation of any product is always a better deal than a newly released one. Not arguing that $749 is a good or bad price, it is just MSRP and you have to compare apples to apples.
K-50 and K-500 are current entry/mid level cameras. Maybe this one will MSRP for 750 and street for the same price which would make it more competitive. If they discontinue the K-50/500 for this K-S1 that would probably be a silly move. Pentax weather sealing and feature rich entry cameras are what attracts people to the brand vs Nikon/Canon who water down the entry level to avoid cannibalism of the upper camera's.

It's a shame they didn't at least weather seal this one for the same price as the K-50.
08-29-2014, 01:21 PM   #108
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,096
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
You need DXO? Go look at imaging resource or dpreviews comparison tools. I own the K5 and the X100s. The fuji 16mp outperforms the K5. In raw it's close to iso 6400. In Jpeg the Fuji dramatically beats the Pentax. The K3 is about on par with the K5 series (maybe a bit worse iso).

Imaging Resource "Comparometer"
If other Fujis are like X100 their ISO is a joke (or a lie):
Tests and reviews for the camera Fujifilm FinePix X100 Measurements - DxOMark
08-29-2014, 01:40 PM   #109
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,345
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
K-50 and K-500 are current entry/mid level cameras. Maybe this one will MSRP for 750 and street for the same price which would make it more competitive. If they discontinue the K-50/500 for this K-S1 that would probably be a silly move. Pentax weather sealing and feature rich entry cameras are what attracts people to the brand vs Nikon/Canon who water down the entry level to avoid cannibalism of the upper camera's. It's a shame they didn't at least weather seal this one for the same price as the K-50.
My opinion is this (K-S1) is not a replacement for the traditional low end line (k-30/k50) but a completely new direction. I am going to speculate that this is the beginning of a new line from Ricoh and will have follow on models in the future as a separate line if it is successful.

We keep trying to put things into niches (entry level, mid-range, semi-pro) whatever. But a manufacturer that does that is just following the herd, not breaking new ground. Like it or hate it, this camera breaks new ground for Ricoh. We look at things through our particular bias set and wonder what is Ricoh doing? They are not looking at the world through the same glasses we are. Only time will tell who had the better vision, but most of the opinions I see on this forum simply demand a 30 year old film camera with a sensor in it. That's been done.

Ricoh keeps looking for things that have NOT been done. Some products will be winners some will not. Pundits all predicted that k-01 would fail, maybe it did since it is gone with no follow up. Pundits all predicted silly Q would fail, yet we are now with the 4th camera in that line with a good number of lenses and more promised.

So who knows what will work and what will not. I do know that unless you try something you cannot possibly succeed. Ricoh is trying.

08-29-2014, 03:47 PM   #110
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,913
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
You need DXO? Go look at imaging resource or dpreviews comparison tools.
I just need data. Looking at mysteriously cooked JPG's isn't the same.

Plus the way Fuji calculates their ISO's, as many have noted, is of concern.

Furthermore, as I discovered myself, Fuji's total lack of openness about the EV sensitivity specifications of their exposure and AF systems in all their recent cameras - in contrast to every other brand - makes me sceptical of anything Fuji.
08-29-2014, 06:41 PM   #111
Veteran Member
LeeRunge's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Alabama
Posts: 446
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If other Fujis are like X100 their ISO is a joke (or a lie):
Tests and reviews for the camera Fujifilm FinePix X100 Measurements - DxOMark
The X100 and X100s use different sensors. This is like saying the K7 (scored a 63) has horrible iso performance so how can the K5 be good?
08-29-2014, 06:47 PM   #112
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Working From Home
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,232
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-50 is 470 USD for body...K-S1 is 750 USD... I understand nothing in marketing
K50 is over two years old (k30 in a rounded body).
08-29-2014, 06:55 PM   #113
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Working From Home
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,232
QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
But the K-S1 demonstrates that Ricoh doesn't have a clue about next-generation anything and hints at a frightening line of thinking in terms of product development. After seeing this, what can one expect from another try at mirrorless by the company?
FirstWorlderBias? (DK because youa re location anonymous).

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
My opinion is this (K-S1) is not a replacement for the traditional low end line (k-30/k50) but a completely new direction. I am going to speculate that this is the beginning of a new line from Ricoh and will have follow on models in the future as a separate line if it is successful.
I think you are spot-on. The whole game is to get more K-mounts (and Q-mounts) into the installed base. Looks to me like -S1 is a design identifier that will denote a line identity. There will probably be a K50 replacement. A K500 replacement is more doubtful since it was intended just for BestBuy/Target/Costco and EU - and I don't think they really bought into the idea.

08-29-2014, 06:59 PM   #114
Veteran Member
LeeRunge's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Alabama
Posts: 446
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I just need data. Looking at mysteriously cooked JPG's isn't the same.

Plus the way Fuji calculates their ISO's, as many have noted, is of concern.

Furthermore, as I discovered myself, Fuji's total lack of openness about the EV sensitivity specifications of their exposure and AF systems in all their recent cameras - in contrast to every other brand - makes me sceptical of anything Fuji.
When I set both camera's to identical settings the Fuji puts out results that are better than what I get strait from the camera on my K5. However this is "mysteriously cooked" is irrelevant if the results are better. Lightroom is "mysteriously cooking" results as well. ISO shows no difference between my K5 and X100s when settings are the same so I don't see the concern there. Maybe that happened in the past but doesn't seem to be the case on mine.
08-29-2014, 07:15 PM   #115
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,931
A KS-1/K-500/K-50 body, 18-55mm lens, Lightroom 5/6, SD card, Lens Pen, and useful/easy to follow along tutorials on both beginner SLR photography and Lightroom in a bundle at a reduced price. Box it and sell it in department stores.

I do wonder if a bundle like that would work in the USA. It seems Americans do like bundles.. big boxes of crap at a low price.
08-29-2014, 07:28 PM   #116
Pentaxian
Biro's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,200
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
FirstWorlderBias? (DK because youa re location anonymous).
I'm in the U.S. FirstWorlderBias? I don't know. I'm going by Ricoh's own mission statement for the K-S1 - that it's a camera for those who use "mobile interfaces." As in cell-phone shooters. So how is a camera that offers no touchscreen or native wifi and features a big K-mount lens with noisy autofocus supposed to appeal to that person?

I see all kinds of analysis in this string about where the K-S1 fits into the Pentax product line. But judging by Ricoh's own news release, this camera is simply an unfinished product, lacking the most basic features of a "mobile interface." I've never been a part of the " Pentax is doomed" crowd. Bright colors? I couldn't care less; that's the least of my issues with the K-S1.

There may be some people who like the K-S1. And that's fine. But I can't see the theoretical target market being interested in it at all. Think about the only two photographic products have have resonated with young people in the past decade: the iPhone and the GoPro camera. Do we honestly think the K-S1 has any of that mojo for that kind of customer?
08-29-2014, 07:37 PM   #117
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,345
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think you are spot-on. The whole game is to get more K-mounts (and Q-mounts) into the installed base. Looks to me like -S1 is a design identifier that will denote a line identity. There will probably be a K50 replacement. A K500 replacement is more doubtful since it was intended just for BestBuy/Target/Costco and EU - and I don't think they really bought into the idea.
We tend to think in niches that are easily classified. Perhaps because the review sites love doing that. Entry/Mid/Flagship, small/medium/large, m4/3/APS-C/FF, makes everything easy to slice and dice for the review sites.

But who decides a camera is a mid-level or an entry-level? Or anything else for that matter. I think Ricoh is deliberately defining a particular target demographic then designing a product to fit what that demographic says it wants in a camera. Research using focus groups, polls, asking people on the street, whatever.

Take a look at the Q? Where did that come from? I think a marketing team did a focus group on a particular demographic and designed the Q based on those responses. I think the K-S1 was designed the same way. Reading the posts in this thread and the other K-S1 threads (please don't ask me why) I see many posters noting that the K-S1 has features/does not have features that 'fit/don't fit' it into an "entry level" or "mid-level" niche. I think that is because it was not designed or intended to be either or to match up with any existing preconceived idea of what a "entry level" or "mid-level" camera is. I think it is precisely designed to match what the targeted focus group demographic said they wanted. So if you think it is a horrible idea, then you are definitely not in the target demographic.

But I really do not understand the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's a camera designed for a certain niche. If not you then why worry? This is not a zero sum game. Just because they made a camera for someone else does not preclude them making a different camera that fits different demographic.

Canikon make entry level / mid-level / pro-level. Nice easy to understand niches. Then Ricoh comes along and does not play by the rules. Oops, too bad.
08-29-2014, 07:55 PM   #118
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,873
QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Actually, the Fuji might win that high ISO shootout. They don't have an AA filter, either.
Fuji got a lot of undeserved acclaim, because the first X-mount camera said it was shooting at ISO6400 and was actually shooting at ISO1000.

"Hey, this Fuji has the same noise at ISO6400 that my D7000 has at ISO1600!"

They were inferior to Nikon and Pentax but needed good press.

I think they've been lying less lately but I wouldn't assume they'd win at anything. Except an election.
08-29-2014, 08:26 PM   #119
Veteran Member
LeeRunge's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Alabama
Posts: 446
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Fuji got a lot of undeserved acclaim, because the first X-mount camera said it was shooting at ISO6400 and was actually shooting at ISO1000.

"Hey, this Fuji has the same noise at ISO6400 that my D7000 has at ISO1600!"

They were inferior to Nikon and Pentax but needed good press.

I think they've been lying less lately but I wouldn't assume they'd win at anything. Except an election.
Have you even looked at the latest photo's from a 16mp Fuji? ISO is not cooked on the latest X100s unless the K5 is as well because they are near identical exposure at the same settings.
08-29-2014, 10:29 PM   #120
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sankt Peterburg
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,385
As for prices
$800 Pentax KS-1 with kit
$499 Canon T5 with kit
$800 Sony A6000. Fastest mirrorless, faster than most DSLR
$749 Olympus EM10. Stunning performer, great control, great EVF, and good looks
$648 Panasonic G6 with articulate LCD and the best VIDEO
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
body, business, buttons, buzz, camera, change, competition, control, grip, hand, hands-on, k-01, k-s1, lens, level, look, market, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, photography, pm, post, price, review, target, viewfinder, wr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hands-On Video with the Pentax 1.4x Teleconverter Adam Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 18 02-10-2014 06:33 PM
Hands-on with the Pentax WG-3 Adam Pentax Compact Cameras 7 07-17-2013 04:35 AM
Wanted - Acquired: Pentax K-x / K-r Body Only or with Lens CircaM Sold Items 2 03-01-2013 03:43 PM
Hands-On Photos of the K-01 from Pentax Singapore User Group creampuff Pentax K-01 299 12-03-2012 08:01 AM
Pentax ad for K-30 on dpreview.com bwDraco Photographic Industry and Professionals 2 09-23-2012 06:24 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:22 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top