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08-29-2014, 07:15 PM   #121
mee
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A KS-1/K-500/K-50 body, 18-55mm lens, Lightroom 5/6, SD card, Lens Pen, and useful/easy to follow along tutorials on both beginner SLR photography and Lightroom in a bundle at a reduced price. Box it and sell it in department stores.

I do wonder if a bundle like that would work in the USA. It seems Americans do like bundles.. big boxes of crap at a low price.

08-29-2014, 07:28 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
FirstWorlderBias? (DK because youa re location anonymous).
I'm in the U.S. FirstWorlderBias? I don't know. I'm going by Ricoh's own mission statement for the K-S1 - that it's a camera for those who use "mobile interfaces." As in cell-phone shooters. So how is a camera that offers no touchscreen or native wifi and features a big K-mount lens with noisy autofocus supposed to appeal to that person?

I see all kinds of analysis in this string about where the K-S1 fits into the Pentax product line. But judging by Ricoh's own news release, this camera is simply an unfinished product, lacking the most basic features of a "mobile interface." I've never been a part of the " Pentax is doomed" crowd. Bright colors? I couldn't care less; that's the least of my issues with the K-S1.

There may be some people who like the K-S1. And that's fine. But I can't see the theoretical target market being interested in it at all. Think about the only two photographic products have have resonated with young people in the past decade: the iPhone and the GoPro camera. Do we honestly think the K-S1 has any of that mojo for that kind of customer?
08-29-2014, 07:37 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think you are spot-on. The whole game is to get more K-mounts (and Q-mounts) into the installed base. Looks to me like -S1 is a design identifier that will denote a line identity. There will probably be a K50 replacement. A K500 replacement is more doubtful since it was intended just for BestBuy/Target/Costco and EU - and I don't think they really bought into the idea.
We tend to think in niches that are easily classified. Perhaps because the review sites love doing that. Entry/Mid/Flagship, small/medium/large, m4/3/APS-C/FF, makes everything easy to slice and dice for the review sites.

But who decides a camera is a mid-level or an entry-level? Or anything else for that matter. I think Ricoh is deliberately defining a particular target demographic then designing a product to fit what that demographic says it wants in a camera. Research using focus groups, polls, asking people on the street, whatever.

Take a look at the Q? Where did that come from? I think a marketing team did a focus group on a particular demographic and designed the Q based on those responses. I think the K-S1 was designed the same way. Reading the posts in this thread and the other K-S1 threads (please don't ask me why) I see many posters noting that the K-S1 has features/does not have features that 'fit/don't fit' it into an "entry level" or "mid-level" niche. I think that is because it was not designed or intended to be either or to match up with any existing preconceived idea of what a "entry level" or "mid-level" camera is. I think it is precisely designed to match what the targeted focus group demographic said they wanted. So if you think it is a horrible idea, then you are definitely not in the target demographic.

But I really do not understand the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's a camera designed for a certain niche. If not you then why worry? This is not a zero sum game. Just because they made a camera for someone else does not preclude them making a different camera that fits different demographic.

Canikon make entry level / mid-level / pro-level. Nice easy to understand niches. Then Ricoh comes along and does not play by the rules. Oops, too bad.
08-29-2014, 07:55 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Actually, the Fuji might win that high ISO shootout. They don't have an AA filter, either.
Fuji got a lot of undeserved acclaim, because the first X-mount camera said it was shooting at ISO6400 and was actually shooting at ISO1000.

"Hey, this Fuji has the same noise at ISO6400 that my D7000 has at ISO1600!"

They were inferior to Nikon and Pentax but needed good press.

I think they've been lying less lately but I wouldn't assume they'd win at anything. Except an election.

08-29-2014, 08:26 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Fuji got a lot of undeserved acclaim, because the first X-mount camera said it was shooting at ISO6400 and was actually shooting at ISO1000.

"Hey, this Fuji has the same noise at ISO6400 that my D7000 has at ISO1600!"

They were inferior to Nikon and Pentax but needed good press.

I think they've been lying less lately but I wouldn't assume they'd win at anything. Except an election.
Have you even looked at the latest photo's from a 16mp Fuji? ISO is not cooked on the latest X100s unless the K5 is as well because they are near identical exposure at the same settings.
08-29-2014, 10:29 PM   #126
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As for prices
$800 Pentax KS-1 with kit
$499 Canon T5 with kit
$800 Sony A6000. Fastest mirrorless, faster than most DSLR
$749 Olympus EM10. Stunning performer, great control, great EVF, and good looks
$648 Panasonic G6 with articulate LCD and the best VIDEO
08-29-2014, 11:19 PM   #127
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Have any one notes that the are no women discussing K-S1 design, just bunch of dudes...
08-30-2014, 06:31 AM - 1 Like   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
The X100 and X100s use different sensors. This is like saying the K7 (scored a 63) has horrible iso performance so how can the K5 be good?
You don't get it. I don't give a damn about the performance.
I give a crap about advertising false iso values which in the case of the X100 are:
Code:
Advertised - Real
200 127
400 253
800 504
1600 1000
3200 1012
6400 1076
As measured by DXO. Since you use DXO to witness sharpness of Fuji sensors/lenses, I guess you will accept this as a valid source as well. Won't you?

As for the choice of sensors, if DXO tested a more recent APS Fuji sensor, I could have taken those measurements, indeed.

08-30-2014, 06:48 AM - 3 Likes   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Have any one notes that the are no women discussing K-S1 design, just bunch of dudes...
On another thread LaurenOE (She of the anti-Ricoh on the back of the K-3) gives it her stamp of approval after intelligent, thoughtful comments. She is a heavy, pro user of multiple K5's, K5II's and K-3's.
"I'm relieved that we don't have another crazy idea.
For once in recent memory, Pentax/Ricoh is making an honest attempt to attract photographers with something "new" in a dSLR.
"
08-30-2014, 06:56 AM   #130
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If Lauren approves its all good.
08-30-2014, 07:18 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Have any one notes that the are no women discussing K-S1 design, just bunch of dudes...
PF seems to be comprised of (mostly) a bunch of old dudes... One of the few outside reviews was by a woman and she liked it and then as mentioned Lauren likes it.. but I think it is probably 70:30 in favor of dudes here population wise..
08-30-2014, 07:25 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
On another thread LaurenOE (She of the anti-Ricoh on the back of the K-3) gives it her stamp of approval after intelligent, thoughtful comments. She is a heavy, pro user of multiple K5's, K5II's and K-3's.
"I'm relieved that we don't have another crazy idea.
For once in recent memory, Pentax/Ricoh is making an honest attempt to attract photographers with something "new" in a dSLR.
Thank you for pointing that out, but the my main point is that photography is “hip” among girls and young women(they are main buying force) who will choose flashy colorful camera or something retro looking over bulky D4 or 5D lookalike. Just watch Pentax comical for K-S1, main characters are girls. So why we man criticize a great tool to open and lear the great world of photography? Anyway anything better then smartphone photography...

---------- Post added 08-30-14 at 17:26 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
PF seems to be comprised of (mostly) a bunch of old dudes... One of the few outside reviews was by a woman and she liked it and then as mentioned Lauren likes it.. but I think it is probably 70:30 in favor of dudes here population wise..
Maybe it’s time to change?

---------- Post added 08-30-14 at 17:49 ----------

Hey maybe K-S1 is read like “kiss"?

Last edited by i83N; 08-30-2014 at 07:50 AM.
08-30-2014, 09:55 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
A KS-1/K-500/K-50 body, 18-55mm lens, Lightroom 5/6, SD card, Lens Pen, and useful/easy to follow along tutorials on both beginner SLR photography and Lightroom in a bundle at a reduced price. Box it and sell it in department stores.

I do wonder if a bundle like that would work in the USA. It seems Americans do like bundles.. big boxes of crap at a low price.
K-500 then. The cheaper the better.
08-30-2014, 10:24 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You don't get it. I don't give a damn about the performance.
I give a crap about advertising false iso values which in the case of the X100 are:

.
I don't really care what DxO says. I care about the images to my eyes from a camera. The X100s look great, that's all that matters. Same ISO setting as my K5, same exposure. DxO also said the K7 sensor was terrible and it wasn't. That site also seems heavily biased toward anything Nikon.
08-30-2014, 10:37 AM   #135
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The K-5 was better rated than the Nikon D7000.

I don't think they're biased towards Nikon, seeing as all the highest rated sensors are Sony sensors. It just seems like the Sony sensors do better, with minor advantages to one manufacturer or another based on read noise, etc.

It's possible that they're wrong about Fuji lying about the X100. I doubt it heavily. I never said anything about the X100s, but as I recall Fuji started lying less in later years. Still, I won't support a company that actively deceives the userbase.
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