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09-05-2014, 01:31 PM   #16
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I can only speak to automobile manufacturers, but I'm sure the same applies to cameras. Modern consumers are much less adventurous than we like to think, especially when it comes to major purchases. We buy variations on the most popular format/layout/style, but we don't like to spend serious money for something radically different than what our peers are buying. So everyone in the same age bracket, with similar family circumstances (married with kids, singles, etc.), living in the same geographic area all buy cars that look the same. It wasn't always that way, as ElJamoquio points out. Back in 1965, when GM was selling a million Impalas, they also sold over 250,000 Corvairs. The number of cars sold in the U.S. has dropped since 1965, but not by a factor of 5. While GM only sold 200,000 Impalas last year, there were 408,000 Camrys, 366,000 Accords, 320,000 Altimas, 295,000 Fusions, 203,000 Sonatas and even 155,000 Optimas sold in the same market. What has changed is how little difference there is between the bestselling models. Take away nameplates and brand logos, and most of us couldn't guess which one is which.

You can sell something new and unusual, if it immediately appeals to a market that doesn't like what is currently available. So, I think Ricoh has a market for the K-S1, but I really don't think it is appealing enough to that market to be wildly successful. On the other hand, the market for a K-S1 type camera (slick, slim, shiny and colourful "fun but serious-looking" camera with an optical viewfinder and interchangeable lenses for under $1000) might be big enough, and the competition weak enough, that Ricoh can still make money with it. Time will tell if this camera survives in the marketplace, but coming out with something new and different isn't going to hurt the Pentax brand, even if they only sell 795 K-S1s.

09-05-2014, 02:53 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
FYI Sigma is much larger than Pentax. I have no idea about Tamron, Tokina, Zeiss, etc.
Got sidetracked by the car discussion and thought we were talking about cameras. As far as I know, Pentax only manufactures lenses for Pentax branded cameras (the Other brands with K-mount cameras are too obscure and ancient to be relevant). Selling more lenses than Pentax isn't relevant to whether or not Sigma produces a particular lens in K-mount, or whether Pentax tries to make it more difficult for Sigma to produce K-mount lenses. I don't know of any authoritative figures for third party interchangeable lens sales, but if the total number of offerings is declining, then the market is probably declining as well. We know that ILC sales are declining, and one way for camera manufacturers to keep revenue and profit up in a mature, declining market is to sell more OE lenses. Which suggests that Sigma's financial results for their lens manufacturing division is headed in the wrong direction to be able to invest in expanding their product lines. Developing a line of cameras must be more expensive than developing new lenses, so Sigma's camera division probably sees the lion's share of R&D money as well. Photographic equipment is Sigma's only business, so it isn't like they can afford to take a long term view to building new markets. Sigma may still be the largest independent manufacturer of camera lenses, but that doesn't mean they can exercise any control over the market for camera lenses.
09-05-2014, 08:21 PM - 1 Like   #18
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It is sad that I can't get to 600mm without expensive legacy glass.
09-06-2014, 05:35 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
By next year Pentax will release the Tamron with HD coatings as the HD DA 150-600. The release price will probably be $1500 but it will be there.
Hallo, this is only your hypothesis or do you have some precise information?
Thanks

09-06-2014, 05:53 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by aiki76 Quote
Hallo, this is only your hypothesis or do you have some precise information?
Thanks
It is a supposition based on past Pentax history and a vague line on a lens roadmap. Why design and manufacture a niche lens when a third party has already done so and doesn't produce it in K-mount?

See FA 28-105 F4-5.6 [IF], FA 28-200 F3.8-5.6 AL [IF], DA 18-250 F3.5-6.3 ED AL [IF], DA 18-270 F3.5-6.3 ED SDM

The FA lenses and 18-250 were even produced in K-mount in direct competition with Pentax.
09-06-2014, 06:05 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
It is a supposition based on past Pentax history and a vague line on a lens roadmap. Why design and manufacture a niche lens when a third party has already done so and doesn't produce it in K-mount?

See FA 28-105 F4-5.6 [IF], FA 28-200 F3.8-5.6 AL [IF], DA 18-250 F3.5-6.3 ED AL [IF], DA 18-270 F3.5-6.3 ED SDM

The FA lenses and 18-250 were even produced in K-mount in direct competition with Pentax.
Ok thanks.
I really hope that this can become true, but I would have a couple of doubts: first, this is not in roadmap. It's true that this can be considered a little bit vague, but there is not a lens approaching 600 mm in it. Second, all the other lens you cited were much more cheap that the 150-600
09-06-2014, 06:25 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by aiki76 Quote
Ok thanks.
I really hope that this can become true, but I would have a couple of doubts: first, this is not in roadmap. It's true that this can be considered a little bit vague, but there is not a lens approaching 600 mm in it. Second, all the other lens you cited were much more cheap that the 150-600
On a different forum a poster called asahi man says the DA tele-zoom will be longer than the line would seem to indicate. The most relevant lens to this discussion is the 18-270. Pentax simply removed the stabilization, added SMC coating, and raised the price $300. It filled the super-zoom niche without any real R&D.
09-06-2014, 06:35 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
On a different forum a poster called asahi man says the DA tele-zoom will be longer than the line would seem to indicate. The most relevant lens to this discussion is the 18-270. Pentax simply removed the stabilization, added SMC coating, and raised the price $300. It filled the super-zoom niche without any real R&D.
Let's see! In case, removing the stabilization would be a real shame for such a long lens
Any case, it would be a really welcome addiction to the current lineup and I will probably get one

09-07-2014, 03:18 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by aiki76 Quote
Let's see! In case, removing the stabilization would be a real shame for such a long lens
Any case, it would be a really welcome addiction to the current lineup and I will probably get one
Tamron themselves removed the stabilisation on their 150-600mm in Sony Alpha mount.
09-07-2014, 11:38 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Tamron themselves removed the stabilisation on their 150-600mm in Sony Alpha mount.
I believe, like Pentax, the bodies have image stabilization so there is no need for it on the actual lens.
09-07-2014, 12:22 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by scole Quote
I believe, like Pentax, the bodies have image stabilization so there is no need for it on the actual lens.
optical stabilization is active also looking in the viewfinder, while sensor stabilization don't. Using a very long lens like a 600 mm with the in-lens stabilization is quite simpler

This sounds like what happened with the Sigma 500/4.5, without HSM for Pentax and Sony... a reduced value compared with Canikon for the same (or higher) cost...it's not the best in my opinion
09-15-2014, 07:15 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
There is only ONE way to get third parties to make K-mount lenses, and that is for there to be enough people buying K-mount lenses to make it profitable. For better or worse, Hoya's positioning Pentax as a "budget" brand means that Pentaxians are less likely to spend the big bucks. So not only are there 8+ Canons and 8+ Nikons and 1+ E-mount for every K-mount, the K-mount owners are less likely to pay MSRP for high-priced new glass.
I for one can say that I own the most expensive lens I will ever purchase for this system - That is my Sigma 70-200 HSM II that cost about $950 new.

If I decided I was going to start spending more money than that for a lens, I would seriously consider making the jump to a system that might cost more, but also has:
A) *** BETTER AFTER-SALE SUPPORT
B) Better AF, our AF is seriously lacking.
C) More Options (i.e. Crop or FF)
D) Better flash support

I am a hobbyist, if I was a pro I frankly would not put much trust in what we have here at this time. Face it, we buy from a company that can't seem to get cameras fixed under warrantee within a couple month time frame lately. How much money should one put into such a system when alternatives are available?

If Pentax wants to play with Canikon and if we want to see the 3rd party support that they get, Pentax will need to up their game and show that this is a system worth spending big money on.
09-16-2014, 06:44 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by nkull Quote
Face it, we buy from a company that can't seem to get cameras fixed under warrantee within a couple month time frame lately. How much money should one put into such a system when alternatives are available?
That is mostly a USA problem. Under Hoya, the Pentax sales and support network in the US was basically demolished, possibly past the point of no return (or past the point where it is economically feasible to do anything with it). Our neighbors in Canada seem to do better for repairs, although both sides have changed repair vendors recently, so we'll see what happens. Europe also seems to have better repair centers, and in Japan, you can get walk-up service - something we can only dream about.
09-16-2014, 07:05 AM   #29
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CaNikon are just as bad. Nikon almost got thrown out of China since theirs was so bad. US service has been difficult to access, HOWEVER, I had a recent SDM issue in a 16-50 DA* and Pentax/CRIS were great. Pentax corporate expedited parts so I could make a photo excursion of 6000 miles. hey were very responsive on a few smaller issues as well. The parts team and I have swapped tips on sources for obsolete accessories for FA* and Japan Pentax parts has stepped up since 2013... Get over it... Worse case, send it to Pentax Canada. They actually care. I expect it to improve more over time...
09-17-2014, 03:08 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
And that reputation has been around for decades. I remember showing my then new K10D to a few retired photographer friends, a few of whom shot Pentax 645 and 6x7 in the day. They started recounting how Pentax shooters in the 60s and 70s were perceived to be "cheapskates" (they used the same word) compared with Nikon shooters.

M
Try telling David Bailey that! In my aged recollection it was THE SLR to have in the UK in the swinging sixties!
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