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11-26-2016, 01:23 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
What do you think why every small beginner lens company is offering their lenses in K mount / KAF3? Because it is not feasible?
What small beginner company is offering a KAF3 mount lens? Tamron, Tokina and Sigma stopped to make new AF lenses for Pentax, all the others are making manual mount K lenses. Zeiss/Cosina even stopped to make them.

11-26-2016, 01:34 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
What small beginner company is offering a KAF3 mount lens? Tamron, Tokina and Sigma stopped to make new AF lenses for Pentax, all the others are making manual mount K lenses. Zeiss/Cosina even stopped to make them.
I should have been more precise so you do not stumble. Not KAF3 but "pre KAF4" with aperture control lever. The stuff the Sigma CEO is way too incompetent to make the small firms can do easily.

Samyang can do where Sigma fails.
Irix can do where Sigma fails.
Laowa can do where Sigma fails.
Mitakon can do where Sigma fails.
Lomography Daguerreotype can do where Sigma fails.






11-26-2016, 04:40 AM   #78
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Lomography doesn't even put a iris diaphragm. There is no aperture lever.
11-26-2016, 05:00 AM   #79
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That is not even close to a working apology.

Still at least four smaller (including tiny) competitors from Korea and China have a lot more competent lens designers and CEOs than Sigma obviously. LOL.

Anyhow I think we will see them crawling back to a handful of K-mount options soon enough.

11-26-2016, 06:06 AM   #80
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One of the forum owners of a 150-600 says his lens works with the TC on a Nikon.

It;s a legitimate question.
11-26-2016, 08:19 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Not KAF3 but "pre KAF4" with aperture control lever.

Samyang can do where Sigma fails.
Irix can do where Sigma fails.
Laowa can do where Sigma fails.
Mitakon can do where Sigma fails.
Lomography Daguerreotype can do where Sigma fails.
Well ranted, but only 40% correct. Neither Mitakon nor Laowa have aperture levers on their current K-mount lenses - they are more like adapted M42 lenses. So really, all you have are Samyang and Irix, who may be partnering with Samyang for the aperture parts. The lack of K-mount versions of Samyang's new 'Premium' lenses suggests even they are finding it to be not worth the effort.
11-26-2016, 08:22 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Same low reliability rumors (that is not critisizing you) were circulated by some German dealers three weeks ago.

Sigmas lens sales probably took just the same nose dive as Nikon's and Canon's.
Sigma simply can not afford their old arrogance any longer. They need every potential buyer they can get.
What do you think why every small beginner lens company is offering their lenses in K mount / KAF3? Because it is not feasible?
To their defense, a Manual lens is far less complicated to manufacture than having to reverse engineer electronics to function with a particular camera system. So that is probably a part of why we see the manual lenses offered so quickly in K mount... this is less time and money that needs to be invested by them.

I'd like to see that 24-105 F/4 too though. Sigma can take my money if they offer these zooms.

---------- Post added 11-26-16 at 09:25 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
One of the forum owners of a 150-600 says his lens works with the TC on a Nikon.

It;s a legitimate question.
It is, but no one can answer until Sigma creates this lens for K mount and it is tested with the TC. I'm curious of it as well.
11-26-2016, 08:28 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
To their defense, a Manual lens is far less complicated to manufacture than having to reverse engineer electronics to function with a particular camera system. So that is probably a part of why we see the manual lenses offered so quickly in K mount... this is less time and money that needs to be invested by them.

I'd like to see that 24-105 F/4 too though. Sigma can take my money if they offer these zooms.

---------- Post added 11-26-16 at 09:25 AM ----------



It is, but no one can answer until Sigma creates this lens for K mount and it is tested with the TC. I'm curious of it as well.
And that's where companies like Sigma should make their money, offering useful product that OEMs don't make. I have no idea why Pentax doesn't make a 24-105 (although I'd prefer variable aperture and less weight.). And before someone jumps in and says how hard it is... Sigma just did it... what is it about Sigma (and Canon) engineers that they can design a 24-105 and about Pentax engineers, that they can't?


Last edited by normhead; 11-26-2016 at 08:34 AM.
11-26-2016, 08:51 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
. what is it about Sigma (and Canon) engineers that they can design a 24-105 and about Pentax engineers, that they can't?
Ricoh has even patents about lenses for micro4/3 sensor, soemthing they have not on any of their camera.

It's not about what they can design, but about what they can actually sell. Sigma has the potential user base of Canon plus Nikon plus Sony, while Ricoh has only pentaxians... Design could be cheap, but building lenses that will take many years to be sold is another.

But with the new KAF4 things will change, because it will be easy to swap a K mount onto any lens, like it is easy for Nikon Canon and Sony, and Sigma and Tamron will be back to sell Pentax lens.
11-26-2016, 08:56 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
It's not about what they can design, but about what they can actually sell.
Right now Pentax isn't selling me a lens because they don't have a 24-105.... which would be a viable walk around , where as with the 28-105, I'm going to need a second lens for wide angle. That really reduces what I'll pay for the lens. My biggest problem with the 18-135 is, it doesn't go wide enough for many common situations. I'm not making that mistake twice.

So if it's about what they can actually sell, based on my sample of one, they made a bad decision.

I have my 60-250 ƒ4 for a longer zoom. The lens that goes with it absolutely has to cover 24mm and be light enough to carry all day on the camera, and with enough overlap with the 60-250 that I'm not changing lenses all the time. All I'm asking for here is basic two lens functionality. Pentax wants to sell me three heavy lenses. I want two light ones. I see why Pentax might want to sell me what they have instead of what I want. More profit for them. But if I just continue to use my FAJ 18-35, FA 35-80 and 60 250, they don't make a cent.

And if Sigma comes out with one in K-mount and I buy it, their opportunity is gone forever.

Right now I can buy a Canon 6D with 24-105 F4L for $200 cheaper than I paid for my K-1. That's not right. Unfortunately it would be the lens I want not he camera I don't want.
http://www.henrys.com/73958-CANON-EOS-6D-WITH-24-105-F4L-IS-LENS.aspx
http://www.henrys.com/93335-PENTAX-K-1-D-SLR-BODY.aspx

I mean seriously if you're talking about what they can sell, no bundle, no holiday price reductions, and the only lens they offer as the only possible kit lens, is less useful than what everyone else is offering. They made the caerma body the right price, the lenses that go with it are not.

Last edited by normhead; 11-26-2016 at 09:23 AM.
11-26-2016, 09:18 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
It's not about what they can design, but about what they can actually sell.
Indeed; but let's look at the wider picture.
A 24-105 f/4 lens... Canon's is $1100, Sigma's is $900. Pentax' 28-105 is under $500. Half the price, that's a difference.
Obviously, Ricoh Imaging believed they should make an inexpensive (yet good) "kit" lens for the K-1. If they made a $1100 lens instead... well, their "24-70" is $1300, now that would be poor product positioning. Almost as expensive, and as large/heavy as the f/2.8 lens.

The real alternative would've been a 24-105 f/3.5-5.6, Canon has one for $600. I don't know why they didn't do it - perhaps they had a price target; perhaps they couldn't provide a certain level of image quality at 24mm (without increasing the size/price). The Canon appears to have a problem with the edges, at 24mm; maybe Ricoh Imaging thought that to be problematic.
The K-1 itself was designed around a price target. It's an excellent camera, but I can easily point out a few areas where they saved money.
11-26-2016, 09:31 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed; but let's look at the wider picture.
A 24-105 f/4 lens... Canon's is $1100, Sigma's is $900. Pentax' 28-105 is under $500. Half the price, that's a difference.
Obviously, Ricoh Imaging believed they should make an inexpensive (yet good) "kit" lens for the K-1. If they made a $1100 lens instead... well, their "24-70" is $1300, now that would be poor product positioning. Almost as expensive, and as large/heavy as the f/2.8 lens.

The real alternative would've been a 24-105 f/3.5-5.6, Canon has one for $600. I don't know why they didn't do it - perhaps they had a price target; perhaps they couldn't provide a certain level of image quality at 24mm (without increasing the size/price). The Canon appears to have a problem with the edges, at 24mm; maybe Ricoh Imaging thought that to be problematic.
The K-1 itself was designed around a price target. It's an excellent camera, but I can easily point out a few areas where they saved money.
The thing is, my 18-135 also has some problems, which I've trained myself to avoid, I don't need perfection at every FL. There are many images where I just shoot the 18-135 at 18mm, even though I know the lens isn't stellar at that focal length, because the image is never going to be used for anything other than a forum post at 1024 pixels wide. What I do need is wider than 18mm APS_c. My Sigma 8-16 is often shot at 15mm or 16mm... that's a really viable FL. I understand they may want to have better option available... I don't understand not having the cheaper options available. Just straight economics, they'll sell more of the cheaper ones, and they could put out price competitive bundles, for the people who want to open their cameras Christmas morning and start taking some images, without having to go looking for a lens. They need to have a viable kit, packaged in the same box.

Quoted from above...
Right now I can buy a Canon 6D with 24-105 F4L for $200 cheaper than I paid for my K-1. That's not right. Unfortunately it would be the lens I want and the camera I don't want.
http://www.henrys.com/73958-CANON-EOS-6D-WITH-24-105-F4L-IS-LENS.aspx
http://www.henrys.com/93335-PENTAX-K-1-D-SLR-BODY.aspx

My only conclusion here is Pentax once again didn't anticipate sales, and they are still barely meeting demand. They don't have any cameras lying around to put into a kit package.

Last edited by normhead; 11-26-2016 at 09:38 AM.
11-26-2016, 09:59 AM   #88
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Looking at the APS-C lenses, they first did the 18-135 and after a couple of years the 16-85, so I guess that in 2018 or later we could expect a 24-105, just like Asahiman anticipated. Just what we can't expect is a flooding of lenses all at the same time. But if one has a precise need, waiting is not an acceptable answer.

But looking at the upgrade of the lenses, I keep thinking that Ricoh makes money with the 55-300 and not with the DA*300 or the 150-450. So where is going their priority is obvious.
11-26-2016, 10:04 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed; but let's look at the wider picture.
A 24-105 f/4 lens... Canon's is $1100, Sigma's is $900. Pentax' 28-105 is under $500. Half the price, that's a difference.
Obviously, Ricoh Imaging believed they should make an inexpensive (yet good) "kit" lens for the K-1. If they made a $1100 lens instead... well, their "24-70" is $1300, now that would be poor product positioning. Almost as expensive, and as large/heavy as the f/2.8 lens.

The real alternative would've been a 24-105 f/3.5-5.6, Canon has one for $600. I don't know why they didn't do it - perhaps they had a price target; perhaps they couldn't provide a certain level of image quality at 24mm (without increasing the size/price). The Canon appears to have a problem with the edges, at 24mm; maybe Ricoh Imaging thought that to be problematic.
The K-1 itself was designed around a price target. It's an excellent camera, but I can easily point out a few areas where they saved money.
From time to time, you can buy Canon 24-105 F4 for $500-600 bucks or even less during promotion period or with bundle. Then we can check how competitive Pentax's fancy 28-105 is...
11-26-2016, 10:27 AM   #90
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From time to time, you can buy the Pentax cheaper, too - this Black Friday, for example, 15% off the list price. And I believe you're talking about a 11-year old lens, because the 24-105 f/4 L IS II USM isn't yet available. And then, you're talking about bundles - but putting all the discount on the lens.
Not entirely fair, don't you think?

As for normhead's 6D + 24-105L, that's a good example of what I said above. Pentax will not match 4-year old camera + a 11-year old lens prices with their brand new products. But, guess what: Canon won't do that either; the 6D's MSRP was higher than the K-1's, and the 6D's replacement... well, people will have a shock. Nikon won't do that either. Nor Sony. Nor anyone else.
But if you're willing to wait 11 years, I'm sure you'll get an excellent price for the D FA 28-105
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