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09-15-2014, 12:54 PM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Just because apparently, like Ricoh in America, they didn't invest the distribution network.
I had to visit London to actually put my hand on a copy of Galaxy NX....
I think that is a nice camera, but no sales overhere. The price went down, you got 200 euro back and a7 inch Tab3 and still no sales. Now it's 999 euro. I think when you call and demand two 7inch Tab3's you simply get them just to clear stock on the Galaxy NX.

09-15-2014, 03:36 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
The old way is the big reveal during a big show and then compete with others for space on the front page. In that model, Pentax always loses out to Nikon, Canon, Leica, others even if they have a killer product. Nikon D750 and Canon 7D2 beat the Pentax 645Z to the front page of DPReview every time simply because DPReview knows that Nikon and Canon drive site traffic and ad revenue.
...
And because 50% of DPR users can afford either 7DII or D750, but 645Z is a viable option to 0.01% of them.
Ricoh has a totally different focus from the rest of the industry, and they are 6-12 months behind the curve, so that is why they are not the news staying too long. They are too exotic.
I have personally expected a no show regarding the system cameras and lenses, but I have wrongly hoped we may see a decent compact camera with a fixed lens at least. But even there they opted for rebranded JK cameras instead.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-15-2014 at 03:44 PM.
09-15-2014, 03:52 PM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
And because 50% of DPR users can afford either 7DII or D750, but 645Z is a viable option to 0.01% of them.
Ricoh has a totally different focus from the rest of the industry, and they are 6-12 months behind the curve, so that is why they are not the news staying too long. They are too exotic.
I have personally expected a no show regarding the system cameras and lenses, but I have wrongly hoped we may see a decent compact camera with a fixed lens at least. But even there they opted for rebranded JK cameras instead.
Replace 645Z with any Pentax DSLR, even the mythical unicorn full frame and the result will be the same. Pentax simply does have the market share to warrant the attention of the other two. And they're not Leica.
09-15-2014, 04:13 PM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But even there they opted for rebranded JK cameras instead.
Actually, both JK Imaging and Ricoh get their compacts (and actioncams, or whatever) from Asia Optical, with a little customization. Dirt cheap, and pre-engineered. This is what the MX-1 and X-5 (X-90, etc., etc.) were, and why there are almost identical products from other brands (like JK Imaging/Kodak, Olympus and Fuji... or even JVC in the case of the new actioncam). These companies are rounding out the product portfolio for little investment!

Same thing happens with lenses (like the ubiquitous 18-135 that even Sony and Nikon slapped their names on!).

09-15-2014, 04:36 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
Actually, both JK Imaging and Ricoh get their compacts (and actioncams, or whatever) from Asia Optical, with a little customization. Dirt cheap, and pre-engineered. This is what the MX-1 and X-5 (X-90, etc., etc.) were, and why there are almost identical products from other brands (like JK Imaging/Kodak, Olympus and Fuji... or even JVC in the case of the new actioncam). These companies are rounding out the product portfolio for little investment!

Same thing happens with lenses (like the ubiquitous 18-135 that even Sony and Nikon slapped their names on!).
By such moves of adopting someone's old tech at dirt cheap prices, and slapping their name on it, they are alienating enthusiasts who already have their gear. They have nothing tangible or worth mentioning for enthusiasts, who are their core believers.

I believe they should at least strive to give K-3 and 645 users some enthusiast, well-made pocket camera. Preferably a zoom, like Canon G7X or RX100. Or new LX100. It is well known in marketing that selling something interesting, of good quality and complementary will first be interesting to old customers who will spread a good word and commit.

But to no avail.

Leica, on the other hand, does that job of complementary products incredibly well. Just look tomorrow, how well they plan and think strategically. And it pays off.
09-15-2014, 04:54 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
By such moves of adopting someone's old tech at dirt cheap prices, and slapping their name on it, they are alienating enthusiasts who already have their gear. They have nothing tangible or worth mentioning for enthusiasts, who are their core believers.

I believe they should at least strive to give K-3 and 645 users some enthusiast, well-made pocket camera. Preferably a zoom, like Canon G7X or RX100. Or new LX100. It is well known in marketing that selling something interesting, of good quality and complementary will first be interesting to old customers who will spread a good word and commit.

But to no avail.

Leica, on the other hand, does that job of complementary products incredibly well. Just look tomorrow, how well they plan and think strategically. And it pays off.
I don't see how you can accuse Ricoh of elitism for making the 645z and then commend Leica. I don't think DPR users are really the target for the 645z anyway. They don't even have a medium format forum, do they?

I agree that the new Canon and Panasonic compacts look very good, by the way. I only wish they had ergonomics like the GR. This is one frustration I have with Ricoh at the moment. I know if they made a camera like the RX100, it would be much nicer to use, but they haven't followed up on the GR.
09-15-2014, 05:42 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I don't see how you can accuse Ricoh of elitism for making the 645z and then commend Leica. I don't think DPR users are really the target for the 645z anyway. They don't even have a medium format forum, do they?...
Leica has bothered a lot to make lots of complementary products to their M and S series cameras. Both M and S system are very expensive, but Leica paves the way to their users to have more than only a very expensive system camera.
There are few new variations on the M, then APS-C sensored X in few flavours, then all new T system, and a handful of quality fixed lens compacts. Not to mention rather brilliant LX100.
09-15-2014, 06:26 PM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
they are alienating enthusiasts who already have their gear. They have nothing tangible or worth mentioning for enthusiasts, who are their core believers.
Not sure why this keeps coming up. I think it is quite clear at this point that 'enthusiasts' (at least as defined by those inhabiting this forum) are no longer the target market for Ricoh.

Many, many posts for a long time moaning that everything coming out was just "in the pipe" from Hoya. When will the new magical goodies appear? I think we know now. I think the k-3 was the last Hoya product in the pipeline and what we are seeing now (K-S1, Wg-M1, Q-S1) is what we will be getting. Want 'enthusiast' gear? Buy a 645z or change brands. Sad, and maybe a little bitter tonight, but I really expected something more than what we have seen so far. I have money to spend, and nothing to spend it on.......

09-15-2014, 07:12 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not sure why this keeps coming up. I think it is quite clear at this point that 'enthusiasts' (at least as defined by those inhabiting this forum) are no longer the target market for Ricoh.

Many, many posts for a long time moaning that everything coming out was just "in the pipe" from Hoya. When will the new magical goodies appear? I think we know now. I think the k-3 was the last Hoya product in the pipeline and what we are seeing now (K-S1, Wg-M1, Q-S1) is what we will be getting. Want 'enthusiast' gear? Buy a 645z or change brands. Sad, and maybe a little bitter tonight, but I really expected something more than what we have seen so far. I have money to spend, and nothing to spend it on.......
+1
Ricoh's new target audience iseems to be young people who value looks over utility. They seem determined to ignore what their "enthusiast" base wants (K-3 excepted) and I feel a distinct element of disrespect in this. The Ricoh Photokina releases seen in the context of what others in the industry are doing look pretty pale despite the bright playroom colors. Informed essays about "Why Pentax Is Not Doomed" ring hollow to me when there's an elephant in the room like the Nikon D750. That is definitely going to hurt Ricoh but they don't seem to care because they are too busy trying to culture hipster buyers. Ricoh wont get any of my money this year. Don't tell me not to let the door hit me on the way out 'cause I intend to hang around for deals on used equipment from people leaving Pentax.

Last edited by jeff knight; 09-15-2014 at 07:21 PM.
09-15-2014, 07:28 PM - 1 Like   #160
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So except for releasing the best enthusiast camera of the year less than a year ago, Ricoh is ignoring enthusiasts. Where does the 645z fit in that theory?

And just because something is stylish doesn't mean it's not also a capable tool.

Finally, a hipster is likely to buy a K1000, not a KS-1. A hipster is anti-flashy, in an ironic sort of way. I guess "hipster" is becoming like "hippie," i.e., someone not like me.
09-15-2014, 07:47 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I have money to spend, and nothing to spend it on.......
Me too... nothing to spend on what Ricoh currently has on offer.
09-15-2014, 08:32 PM - 1 Like   #162
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Pentax's base is not "enthusiasts." The 2013 BCN survey showed Pentax holding 10% of the Japanese mirrorless market with the Q series. The K-30, a sub-enthusiast camera, accounted for more sales than all the other Pentax DSLR models combined.

Both models are "style" cameras. Pentax's main market is Japan. While Pentax has other niches they focus on (e.g. medium format), their bread and butter is the casual shooter, and it has been for several years now, at least as far back as the Hoya days.

Enthusiasts in the US, where their distribution network is nearly nonexistent, are barely a blip on their radar. And frankly, you as a member of this community don't merit nearly as much respect as you apparently think you are entitled to.

QuoteOriginally posted by jeff knight Quote
+1
Ricoh's new target audience iseems to be young people who value looks over utility. They seem determined to ignore what their "enthusiast" base wants (K-3 excepted) and I feel a distinct element of disrespect in this.
09-15-2014, 08:38 PM - 1 Like   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeff knight Quote
I have money to spend, and nothing to spend it on.......
QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
Me too... nothing to spend on what Ricoh currently has on offer.
Really? Nothing? You have all of these already? I (only) have

K-5IIs | (K-3)

DA*200 DA*300 DA*16~50 DA*50~135 DA*60~250
FA31 (FA43) FA77 DA*55
Limited: DA15 DA21 DA35/2.8 (DA40) DA70 DA20~40
D FA 50 & 100 Macro *(FA50 Macro)
DA 1.4x Rear Converter

There's plenty I can spend my money on this year. And that's just enthusiast stuff. I've barely scratched the surface with Q7 and I actually have more image files from Q than K in the last 12 months.

So sorry you aren't enthused.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-15-2014 at 08:46 PM.
09-15-2014, 08:55 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Pentax's base is not "enthusiasts." The 2013 BCN survey showed Pentax holding 10% of the Japanese mirrorless market with the Q series. The K-30, a sub-enthusiast camera, accounted for more sales than all the other Pentax DSLR models combined.

Both models are "style" cameras. Pentax's main market is Japan. While Pentax has other niches they focus on (e.g. medium format), their bread and butter is the casual shooter, and it has been for several years now, at least as far back as the Hoya days.

Enthusiasts in the US, where their distribution network is nearly nonexistent, are barely a blip on their radar. And frankly, you as a member of this community don't merit nearly as much respect as you apparently think you are entitled to.
Too bad.. it doesn't have to be that way.

I hope in 5 hours when Adam walks in over to the booth that there is a nice surprise, a full frame prototype under glass.
09-15-2014, 09:32 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You have all of these already?
Yes, for the most part. I have a very nice Pentax, Sigma and Tamron lens set, collected over many years, with pride of place going to the FA 31, 43, 77 and 135. But I would much rather use these lenses on a full frame Pentax 35mm as originally intended, not just on my ME Super or (soon to be purchased) Sony A7s.

Last edited by Gray; 09-15-2014 at 09:39 PM.
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