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09-16-2014, 08:11 AM - 2 Likes   #181
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One thing I'd like to know is WTF are the people at Ricoh/Pentax actually working on? It almost seems that the products they put out are some sort of an afterthought. Endless make-overs of the same platform, re-badged zero investment models, no new lenses (well they are UNDER ENGINEERING). Then when the product hits the shelves it's already either basically absolete or middle of the road bland me too. I think it's fair for us to ask these questions, because it's been clear for several years that Ricoh is most definitely not innovating, nor even keeping up with competition. For instance we are now seeing the first wave of 4K cams, and it will probably take Ricoh another 2 or 3 years before we see it in a Pentax brand camera. What Ricoh does instead is provide some dazzling colors and LEDs to look at or some other dubious gimmick "feature". Ricoh is a huge company with deep pockets, so why are they not investing in Pentax? No amount of apologists can obscure the fact that they have had more than enough time to put out some real product. Meanwhile they are not even either able or willing to update/fix the technology they already have! Are they trying to drive away all the (remaining) "enthusiasts"? Maybe this is part of their strategy .. to shed the "legacy" users so they can then market fisher price-like cams in drugstores and supermarkets with wild abandon? Totally pathetic Photokina show FAIL on the part of Ricoh!!

09-16-2014, 08:22 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by digital029art Quote
One thing I'd like to know is WTF are the people at Ricoh/Pentax actually working on? It almost seems that the products they put out are some sort of an afterthought. Endless make-overs of the same platform, re-badged zero investment models, no new lenses (well they are UNDER ENGINEERING)... Ricoh is a huge company with deep pockets, so why are they not investing in Pentax?
Yes, it is becoming quite clear that they are not investing much in photography business. And considering the current state of the market, it is understandable that they are focusing on something else. Some camera and lens manufacturers are obviously willing to take the risk and invest and some of them will make a profit and others not. Ricoh does not seem to like risks.
09-16-2014, 11:23 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by digital029art Quote
One thing I'd like to know is WTF are the people at Ricoh/Pentax actually working on? It almost seems that the products they put out are some sort of an afterthought. Endless make-overs of the same platform, re-badged zero investment models, no new lenses (well they are UNDER ENGINEERING)....
That is a valid question. I think the same stuff as their competition. But they have to scratch their projects a lot because the competition keeps getting there first?
09-16-2014, 12:15 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
That makes absolutely no sense. Are you saying that there is only room in the marketplace for one product at each segment?
No, I did not say that.

There is little space for niche products like, for example, FF mirrorless or super sensitive low MP FF. And Pentax representatives stated repeatedly to want to fill the niches in the market. And there I think the other brands kept beating them in speed time and time again. But that's just a wild theory of mine. Either something like that or Pentax just doesn't give a rats *&^%.

09-16-2014, 12:20 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Yes, it is becoming quite clear that they are not investing much in photography business. And considering the current state of the market, it is understandable that they are focusing on something else. Some camera and lens manufacturers are obviously willing to take the risk and invest and some of them will make a profit and others not. Ricoh does not seem to like risks.
They invested IIRC about 42 million USD only in increasing production capacity (i.e. not counting R&D). Sure, that's nothing. The K-3 is nothing. The 645Z is nothing. The (supposedly) incoming FF and lenses are nothing.
09-16-2014, 12:33 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They invested IIRC about 42 million USD only in increasing production capacity (i.e. not counting R&D). Sure, that's nothing. The K-3 is nothing. The 645Z is nothing. The (supposedly) incoming FF and lenses are nothing.
Is there any way for use to know exactly what products are clearly the result of Ricoh ideation, development and production and what products started with Hoya?
09-16-2014, 12:56 PM   #187
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Does it matter? The Q was an untraditional product, and it was made under Hoya. The K-01, interesting design - same for the K-S1 (Hoya, Ricoh). Who knows how long ago they started working on the 70-200?
09-16-2014, 01:01 PM - 1 Like   #188
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Might as well scornfully ask how many of these products were started under Pentax Corporation or Asahi Pentax.

09-16-2014, 01:09 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Does it matter? The Q was an untraditional product, and it was made under Hoya. The K-01, interesting design - same for the K-S1 (Hoya, Ricoh). Who knows how long ago they started working on the 70-200?
It matters, companies that are risk averse don't invent, they follow other companies who invent , invest and take risk. Those companies tend to stay in business. To me it seems like Ricoh really isn't interested in photography only in finding easy ways to make a few bucks. If most of their great product offerings came from earlier companies then the long view isn't good for Pentax. On the other hand if Ricoh is totally responsible for the new 645Z then that's a very good sign.
09-16-2014, 01:11 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I don't see how you can accuse Ricoh of elitism for making the 645z and then commend Leica. I don't think DPR users are really the target for the 645z anyway. They don't even have a medium format forum, do they?
The last time I paid any attention to DPReview was when I was researching bridge cameras.
09-16-2014, 01:12 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Might as well scornfully ask how many of these products were started under Pentax Corporation or Asahi Pentax.
Ha! I thought about that but didn't say it.... I do have hope for Pentax with Ricoh but I wish they communicated with their true believers and especially with some of the fantastic Pentax photographers that Ricoh should be giving free gear, apparel, and visibility. Would be cheap advertising for the brand.
09-16-2014, 01:37 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodywesty Quote
Ha! I thought about that but didn't say it.... I do have hope for Pentax with Ricoh but I wish they communicated with their true believers and especially with some of the fantastic Pentax photographers that Ricoh should be giving free gear, apparel, and visibility. Would be cheap advertising for the brand.
The really difficult thing to internalize here is the amount of Pentax human capital that was retained by Hoya or terminated (and now is retained by competitors). There was certainly a Pentax design team and a specific design ethic - that differed from Ricoh's - to the extent that building unity and then synergy might have been more challenging than expected. Some posters here will think about that and view current products in a context. Others will just sneer.

I believe you are a thinker.

P.S. - it has taken my company 5 years to have our 'legacy thinking' beaten out of us by our acquirer. Finally, everyone who is going to complain has been terminated; everyone who is going to leave has left; and we seem to be pulling our oars together at last.

It takes a long time.
09-16-2014, 02:03 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The really difficult thing to internalize here is the amount of Pentax human capital that was retained by Hoya or terminated (and now is retained by competitors). There was certainly a Pentax design team and a specific design ethic - that differed from Ricoh's - to the extent that building unity and then synergy might have been more challenging than expected. Some posters here will think about that and view current products in a context. Others will just sneer.

I believe you are a thinker.

P.S. - it has taken my company 5 years to have our 'legacy thinking' beaten out of us by our acquirer. Finally, everyone who is going to complain has been terminated; everyone who is going to leave has left; and we seem to be pulling our oars together at last.

It takes a long time.
Been there, done that. The university that I recently retired from was "taken over" 20 years ago by a new chancellor who had his own vision and he nearly destroyed a rare and wonderful piece of higher education. Some of us survived but oh the wonderful, talented and experienced engineering faculty that left the institution. Hurts to see a beautiful thing destroyed. Somehow I think that Pentax will survive. Ricoh may not yet understand what they have but somebody there does because they had the smarts to put the new 645Z out which in my opinion is a grand slam. Its not in my budget but its sure going to shake up the medium format sector and profile the Pentax name. Other than they don't have a super birding lens yet I like the rest of their offerings. I'm looking forward to hear what Adam has to say when he gets back. Bob
09-16-2014, 03:23 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodywesty Quote
It matters, companies that are risk averse don't invent, they follow other companies who invent , invest and take risk. Those companies tend to stay in business. To me it seems like Ricoh really isn't interested in photography only in finding easy ways to make a few bucks. If most of their great product offerings came from earlier companies then the long view isn't good for Pentax. On the other hand if Ricoh is totally responsible for the new 645Z then that's a very good sign.
But Ricoh is investing, and is interested in photography... why do you think they bought Pentax?
09-16-2014, 03:27 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But Ricoh is investing, and is interested in photography... why do you think they bought Pentax?
For the patents and Canon and Nikon was to expensive...
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