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09-13-2014, 06:52 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Just how many of them are selfise made with front facing camera of iPhone?
Look for yourself on flicker home page:

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/apple/iphone_5s/

2:

Sycamore, Sabino Canyon, December reflection
by allophile, on Flickr


Mini pencils
by Lindsey Thompson (Lindsey76), on Flickr

It is easy to criticize and deny reality. The reality is that most smart phone can take good photos in many situation that are quite good except maybe for shallow deph of field. Some will wine after the low light capabilities but many love film and this one had no stellar low like capabilities back then. Not long ago a 200-300$ compact was worse for everything except zoom.

But smart phones are camera that take phone call, take photos, movies, include instant and intuitive editing of the photo, possibility to send/receive mail, read the news, serve as GPS navigation system, a game console, a music player, act as PDA (you can look at your calendar for next meeting or take notes).

When you already have something like that that available all the time with you, if you decide to buy a dedicated camera, this one has to bring much more to be of any value. I have taken a few photos with my iphone and at least some of them where really nice.

My father did a calendar of one of the photos my mother liked best when she was in terminal phase of cancer... My father love photography, he had many camera back from the 70 with pentax, M135, M50 & M28... He later brough more gear, then got digtal with istDL... Now he has a K30... I have myself K3 before K5. I now have DA15, DA21, DA35, FA50, FA77, DA50-135 & DA17-70. I don't even use anymore the 17-70 as I prefer my primes much better.

Still... When my father selected the shoots to keep and print to my mother, a few where from my iphone. Because the iphone was simply here in the pocket to take the shoot. Because it is far more important to have the good light, the good subject and the good framing than to have the perfect camera.


Another guy did wedding photos with iphone only and edited with iphone only. How crap, many pro shooting D4s or whatever is the most expensive and advenced at the moment would cry to be able to take so great shoots showing the event, the emotions of the persons that well. He finished at 4 position in a photo contest. For sure this guy now his job as a school of photography teacher, but for me it just show that we shouldn't be that focussed on gear and more of the photos we take !


Last edited by Nicolas06; 09-13-2014 at 07:03 AM.
09-13-2014, 12:20 PM   #122
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Interesting.
it would be nice if it would only be a depht of field issue...
Hopefully for Ricoh and the others, you can find many others limitations in smartphone devices versus advanced photog systems.
But you can easily forget about them, when associated to load considerations as well.
Actually, i just Wonder if the "new equilibrium" to be found once every human on two will mainly shoot with it's smartphone, been just "tired" to carry anything else.
My bet is it will not be for the better and more interesting shots.
My personnal conviction also, is that whatever i do with, i cannot take any pleasure with those pastry/dirty/flat/inaccurate/boring smartphones...

Last edited by Zygonyx; 09-13-2014 at 12:27 PM.
09-13-2014, 01:26 PM - 1 Like   #123
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Smartphoto photo technology are just starting . IMagine what you will get in 3-4 years. Company ave very interested to develop product for that market with volume in the 10 millions to 100 millions.
I see a company here in Montreal who working on new Smart phone for photo ans what they are coming abosutly incredible.
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/08/12/montreal-startup-algolux-pset-to-re...?__federated=1
09-13-2014, 02:15 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Interesting.
it would be nice if it would only be a depht of field issue...
Hopefully for Ricoh and the others, you can find many others limitations in smartphone devices versus advanced photog systems.
But you can easily forget about them, when associated to load considerations as well.
Actually, i just Wonder if the "new equilibrium" to be found once every human on two will mainly shoot with it's smartphone, been just "tired" to carry anything else.
My bet is it will not be for the better and more interesting shots.
My personnal conviction also, is that whatever i do with, i cannot take any pleasure with those pastry/dirty/flat/inaccurate/boring smartphones...
SmartPhones are the 135mm of the digital. 24x36 was the lowest quality format available but it won because it was cheap to have the film and the format was small enough to have very compact camera made on top of it.

Actually theses smartphone on most hands get reliably far better results than what most where getting with their film body and manual lenses. And that why before smartphones digital compact where so successfull and now the photo function on smartphone is so successfull. It make good technical photo very very easy to take: frame it, tape with the finger where you want to get the focus... The photo is taken with right exposure, right focus... Done. It does get better sharpness results than most would get on affordable, low quality 24x36 film and would also get better low light results... Without need to have to confiugre anything of change the film.

This is funny how a prime on a DSLR is a good idea, give you technically better pictures and is a tool of creativity and composition to force you to take better photos... But how everybody criticise smartphones that are all with very fast prime lens (like f/2.2 for latest iphone) very advenced technology that allow you to exactly control where the focus is, get good dynamic range, very good colors... The latests smartphones even include optical stabilization. But it must be seen as garbage because well everybody use it.

Before one would differentiate himself from other by having a medium frame or a chamber. Now one differentiate himself with a DSLR... and if possible a FF DSLR. So he can bash other that have more basic gear. That's why FF is best... Not only is allow to use the old lens how their where designed when used on the low end gear off the past: but you can bash all smartphone shooter, all compact camera shooter... But also most DSLR shooters. And if you go a recent 36MP one, you can also bash most FF shooters too !

The arguments I think are not different than 50 years ago. The basic compact 24x36 film had limited features. basic AF when it was available, not enough possibility of controlling the technical aspects like apperture or speed. My father remember a time where the basic camera had fixed apperture and focussed lenses. You could not change it and you had to make sure your subject was the right distance to be in focus and use the proper film to fit in the proper speed range. Back in time you had to estimate exposure manually, make the shoot without necessarily a few finder at all and hope for the best. Today the most basic camera available allow for much more experimentation, control and creativity than what the best camera offered not so long ago.


Last edited by Nicolas06; 09-13-2014 at 02:22 PM.
09-13-2014, 03:06 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Smartphoto photo technology are just starting . IMagine what you will get in 3-4 years. Company ave very interested to develop product for that market with volume in the 10 millions to 100 millions.
I see a company here in Montreal who working on new Smart phone for photo ans what they are coming abosutly incredible.
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/08/12/montreal-startup-algolux-pset-to-re...?__federated=1
Nice find on that article. Hope they succeed!
09-13-2014, 03:16 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
SmartPhones are the 135mm of the digital. 24x36 was the lowest quality format available but it won because it was cheap to have the film and the format was small enough to have very compact camera made on top of it.
Smartphones are the disposable 135mm cameras, perhaps; extremely limited in capabilities (and by that I don't mean Instagram and Angry Birds), but since there's no particular need for quality - only for quantity - they're fine for many.
OTOH, if we're comparing them to the real 135mm cameras, they're terribly inadequate.
09-13-2014, 03:54 PM   #127
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My Galaxy S5 is an air-soft gun.
My Pentax is an assault rifle with a 90 round battle/assault pack taped together.
Just saying...
09-13-2014, 04:09 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Smartphones are the disposable 135mm cameras, perhaps; extremely limited in capabilities (and by that I don't mean Instagram and Angry Birds), but since there's no particular need for quality - only for quantity - they're fine for many.
OTOH, if we're comparing them to the real 135mm cameras, they're terribly inadequate.
Real 135mm cameras of the past were terribly inadequate. No AF, no viewdfinder, no metering. This didn't prevent to take good photos, it was just much more complex.

In term of sharpness and low light the smartphone is doing better than the real, modern 135mm film camera. I agree that they lack manual control, dof control and come in fixed focal lenses. Even through, manual control is just ergonomics and can be changed at any time, fixed focal is also seen by many as a creative tool.

Compared to say X100S that is seen by many as a fine camera, there finally only a little more quality on the X100S and more dof control.

09-13-2014, 04:37 PM   #129
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Exactly what kind of "real 135mm cameras" are you talking about?
Real 135mm cameras started to have AF in '80s, but even before AF we had focusing systems which worked.
Metering is also very old tech; first external, then integrated into the cameras - it was done before I was born.
Can you give me one single example of a "real 135mm camera" which didn't had a viewfinder? At least some lousy, parallax-inducing direct viewfinder?

Those cameras were SLRs and rangefinders, your entire argument is deeply flawed - at best, you'll be able to prove that a smartphone compares favourable with the worst (imaginary?) 135mm camera ever. Hardly something to be proud of - were you a smartphone manufacturer.
09-13-2014, 05:52 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
SmartPhones are the 135mm of the digital. 24x36 was the lowest quality format available but it won because it was cheap to have the film and the format was small enough to have very compact camera made on top of it.
SmartPhones are today's Instamatics. With FlashCubes.
09-13-2014, 06:20 PM   #131
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From what I have read on this thread, there are several of you who have missed your calling in life.

I don't know what that calling might have been, but I do know that it has nothing to do with marketing, the photography industry, or product development/manufacturing.


Steve

(...that felt incredibly good...)
09-13-2014, 07:32 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
SmartPhones are today's Instamatics. With FlashCubes.
…and record players and console televisions and VCRs and atlases and telex and reference library and newspaper and that rack of nudie magazines at the back of the corner store.
09-13-2014, 08:34 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
…and record players and console televisions and VCRs and atlases and telex and reference library and newspaper and that rack of nudie magazines at the back of the corner store.
I am not sure about that record player analogy. Check this out:

Turntables at Music Direct
09-13-2014, 09:01 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
…and record players and console televisions and VCRs and atlases and telex and reference library and newspaper and that rack of nudie magazines at the back of the corner store.
Well, OK, but what's your point? It's still the only camera carried by the vast majority of average middle class people. If they didn't still have a functional compact in the back of a drawer some where it would be the only camera owned by the vast majority of average middle class people.

It is capable of faultlessly taking a photograph within limited exposure boundaries that were no doubt defined to match the sort of photographs the vast majority of average middle class people take, just like an Instamatic.

As such, the iPhone is a boring, ubiquitous, average camera that's perfect for boring, ubiquitous, average middle class people.

Like me.

Which is why there are so many iPhone Flickr photos.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-13-2014 at 09:06 PM.
09-13-2014, 09:18 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenntak Quote
I am not sure about that record player analogy. Check this out:

Turntables at Music Direct
So turntables have turned into pornography for audiophiles?
I reckon that the people buying those turntables would play test discs and reference albums in their acoustically designed rooms through their tube amplifiers. Pornographs, basically

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well, OK, but what's your point? It's still the only camera carried by the vast majority of average middle class people. If they didn't still have a functional compact in the back of a drawer some where it would be the only camera owned by the vast majority of average middle class people.

It is capable of faultlessly taking a photograph within limited exposure boundaries that were no doubt defined to match the sort of photographs the vast majority of average middle class people take, just like an Instamatic.

As such, the iPhone is a boring, ubiquitous, average camera that's perfect for boring, ubiquitous, average middle class people.

Like me.

Which is why there are so many iPhone Flickr photos.
I don't disagree with you at all. I might update the metaphor a bit and say that they are disposable vacation cameras from the 90s because nobody keeps their smart phone more than two years.

I'm just adding all the other things the smartphone has become a proxy of. It's really quite remarkable.
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