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09-22-2014, 02:20 AM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Japan is all about marketing - that's it. Germany is where Leica cameras come from, and is where some of the great lens makers are based (Schneider*, Rodenstock, Carl Zeiss, Leica). Germany is where the specifications for 35mm film were standardized. You may not like it, but without Germany photography wouldn't be where it is today.

*Schott (Schneider) also makes a considerable amount of the glass that is used in high end filters, DSLR lenses,Reflex mirrors, Prisms, Dichroic OLPF, and covering glass for sensor modules.
Digitalis, there are no capitalistic links between Schott and Schneider Kreuznach.

Set up in 1913, Jos. Schneider Optische Werke GmbH belonged to Joseph Schneider, then its family, until they went bankrupt in 1982. They were then bought by Heinrich Manderman and still belong to his family (he died in 2002).

On the other hand, Schott AG and Carl Zeiss AG both belong to the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Stiftung = foundation). Carl Zeiss and his son Roderich were Otto Schott's business partners when they sat up together what has become Schott AG.

09-22-2014, 02:21 AM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Japan is all about marketing - that's it. Germany is where Leica cameras come from, and is where some of the great lens makers are based (Schneider*, Rodenstock, Carl Zeiss, Leica). Germany is where the specifications for 35mm film were standardized. You may not like it, but without Germany photography wouldn't be where it is today.
I'm not anti-German, I'm just saying that it seems that the lion share of camera manufacturing are Japanese based companies, with manufacturing around Asia. I see all the Ziess and Leica lenses on the little compacts, but they do price themselves out of the market with their own gear.

Plus in all honesty, the Panasonic and Sony RX100 (or what ever they were) Japanese cameras which were re-badged by Leica, with glue on genuine wood grip - then slappin on a ridiculous price tag. Then some people say that Pentax is a joke brand with the - "Dooooomed !".

But I kinda got off topic with my initial comment regarding the new lens. My thought was that Pentax might be inclined to release new gear for the Japanese show. But clearly I'm wrong, its got more to do with other factors, like the market situation. But I guess they'd prefer to release their premium products before a Japanese audience. Thats when I'd guess they'll do it with the other two lenses, and the future 35mm DSLR.
09-22-2014, 02:33 AM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
(...)

Plus in all honesty, the Panasonic and Sony RX100 (or what ever they were) Japanese cameras which were re-badged by Leica, with glue on genuine wood grip - then slappin on a ridiculous price tag. Then some people say that Pentax is a joke brand with the - "Dooooomed !".

(...)
The Sony cameras with funny wood grips were rebadged by Hasselblad, not Leica : Lunar (Sony NEX7), Stellar (Sony RX100) and HV (Sony Alpha 99). Hasselblad's CEO got recently fired because of them and their commercial failure.

Leica's compact cameras are indeed Panasonic ones, sometimes identical but the red dot, sometimes a bit restyled.
09-22-2014, 03:06 AM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The Sony cameras with funny wood grips were rebadged by Hasselblad, not Leica : Lunar (Sony NEX7), Stellar (Sony RX100) and HV (Sony Alpha 99). Hasselblad's CEO got recently fired because of them and their commercial failure.

Leica's compact cameras are indeed Panasonic ones, sometimes identical but the red dot, sometimes a bit restyled.
Man my memory is bad today, I've been sick with the flu for more than two weeks - as can be seen by all my posting activity.

I know this is off topic, but you wouldn't happen to know which models of Mercedes Benz have the Peugeot engines in them ? (Mercedes owners puch a hole through their hats when they find out there is no strudel in there Benz, just a baguette !)

09-22-2014, 03:25 AM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
Man my memory is bad today, I've been sick with the flu for more than two weeks - as can be seen by all my posting activity.

I know this is off topic, but you wouldn't happen to know which models of Mercedes Benz have the Peugeot engines in them ? (Mercedes owners puch a hole through their hats when they find out there is no strudel in there Benz, just a baguette !)
I'm afraid it's Renault who are providing Diesel engines to Mercedes: Class A (1.5 dCi a.k.a. 'K9K', 110 bhp), Class B (1.5 dCi), Class C (1.6 dCi a.k.a. 'R9M', 116 and 136 bhp), CLA (1.5 dCi), GLA (1.5 dCi), Vito (1.6 dCi), Citan (a rebadged Renault Kangoo; 1.5 dCi) and may be more.
09-22-2014, 03:50 AM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
I've been sick with the flu for more than two weeks
Since were live in the same region (me: northern rivers NSW), you must have the same flu bug as I recently had. My sympathies. It's a horror.
09-22-2014, 05:56 AM   #352
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The bottom line: I hope the new lens doesn't have bokeh artefacts like this:


Pentax K5IIs- Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 @ f/1.8 20mm 1/60th ISO 1600 100% unsharpened crop

Now to answer some of the OT points:
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Digitalis, there are no capitalistic links between Schott and Schneider Kreuznach.
But there was collaboration between the two companies on lens design and optical engineering. Schneider couldn't have made some of their lenses without some of the unusual glass types schott made for them. Leica couldn't have made the noctilux without collaborating with optical engineers from schott either. Carl Zeiss couldn't have made the Planar 50mm f/0.75 NASA and Stanley Kubrick used without collaboration with schott.

QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
I'm not anti-German, I'm just saying that it seems that the lion share of camera manufacturing are Japanese based companies
I never said you were, I'm just pointing out the origins of photography were in Germany. Japanese companies these days are based upon one rule - whoever has chip foundries controls the products. Japanese have made astonishing developments with electronic development and design, but when it comes to ergonomics and design German cameras (such as the Leica M3 and Leica S2) Will be every bit as good - if not better. Though I have to admit, the Japanese Konica hexar RF was the camera the Leica M7* should have been.

*I know, i'm going to burn in leicaphile hell for saying this.

Last edited by Digitalis; 09-22-2014 at 06:18 AM.
09-22-2014, 06:49 AM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The bottom line: I hope the new lens doesn't have bokeh artefacts like this:
Is there a hidden mirror lens inside the 18-35?

QuoteQuote:
Japanese companies these days are based upon one rule - whoever has chip foundries controls the products.
Are you sure you're not mixing up the circuit designers with the foundries now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundry_model

09-22-2014, 07:19 AM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The bottom line: I hope the new lens doesn't have bokeh artefacts like this:
I've heard of nervous bokeh, but that looks positively startled!
09-22-2014, 08:44 AM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Are you sure you're not mixing up the circuit designers with the foundries now?
you can have the best circuit design in the business - but if no foundry will make it, you will get nowhere.

QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I've heard of nervous bokeh, but that looks positively startled!
yep, that's how highlights are rendered with the 18-35mm f/1.8.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Is there a hidden mirror lens inside the 18-35?
I'll have to check.
09-23-2014, 12:16 AM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
you can have the best circuit design in the business - but if no foundry will make it, you will get nowhere.
Right. But there are basically no foundries in Japan (most are in Taiwan).
09-23-2014, 06:09 AM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Right. But there are basically no foundries in Japan (most are in Taiwan).
Sony has four chip fabs in Japan.

Sony to buy CMOS fab used by struggling Nintendo, refit it for BSI sensor production
09-23-2014, 06:15 AM   #358
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
As do Canon, Toshiba, Hitachi, and a few others.
09-23-2014, 12:33 PM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Sony has four chip fabs in Japan.

Sony to buy CMOS fab used by struggling Nintendo, refit it for BSI sensor production
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
As do Canon, Toshiba, Hitachi, and a few others.
Ah, interesting, so a lot of imaging chip plants are still in Japan, then.
10-05-2014, 02:42 PM   #360
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I see nothing wrong with a 16-85mm and the speed is in line with the Nikkor equivalent. Subject to "decent optics and reasonable price" it's not a bad offering to have. There are of course other lenses I'd like to see but I don't mind something like this arriving. It's at least "sensible" unlike the oddball not fast or wide enough or long enough DA 20-40mm. All lenses are compromises you're not going to get a fast 16-85mm but the 16mm is what people are after and...they want something long enough too it's not a bad lens to have for a general purpose lens. It's not going to replace a 17-50mm f2.8 obviously, on the other hand if you have an 18-135mm I can't see you needing all 3 lenses. I'd wager the optics will stomp the 18-135mm though with ease
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