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10-30-2014, 05:18 AM   #436
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If this lens is good straight wide open, it will be a keeper. And as usual, the price will be lowered for christmas ...

10-30-2014, 05:20 AM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
If this lens is good straight wide open, it will be a keeper. And as usual, the price will be lowered for christmas ...
Mmm maybe not that much. Next Christmas though...
10-30-2014, 05:28 AM   #438
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f5.6 at 85mm.. ugh..
But HD, DC and WR are nice. Will this lens replace the DA 17-70mm or the DA 18-135mm?
10-30-2014, 05:42 AM   #439
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
No? It is ruined that simple though. And the quickest gain at least. Sure, the lens can have ultra magic IQ in good conditions... Only to have it ruined by the noise of the sensor under less then ideal conditions.

Most lenses tend to give they best IQ in the f/4-f/8 range even if they can be used at f/1.4. As for needing lot of light this really depend on the condition but for my usage and without making any effort I tend to shoot much more in the iso 100-400 range than in the 800+ iso range where noise could negatively affect quality.

I would add that from my experience if you want a high quality shoot you DON'T shoot it at high iso at all. You use a tripod and stop down. You ensure there enough light to begin with or add it if necessary with a set of flashes.

I agree there a case where you have to take low light shoot of moving objects and where you can't make use of artificial lights. But that's not that often and for many pro activities (not all), the flashes and tripod will part of the game anyway !

If you shoot in low light for me it should be because you want to show theses conditions specifically. I mean if this to take a portrait of somebody and want it to make it as good as possible, there no way to avoid good lighting. That part of taking photo: gathering the light. Not avoiding it !

A high end camera in difficult condition might give better results than entry level camera... Still it will not shine as much as either camera in good conditions. You should be after thoses good condition to get a good shoot !

10-30-2014, 06:21 AM   #440
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunfog Quote
Since the MTF charts are provided for Pentax and Nikkor we can compare them.

HD PENTAX-DA 16-85mmF3.5-5.6ED DC WR / Standard-Angle Lenses / K-mount Lenses / Lenses / Products | RICOH IMAGING
Interesting to see that Ricoh are now providing MTF charts for one of their lenses.
They haven't done this in the (recent) past.

But unfortunately, the charts are not very helpful.
There is no indication of the aperture,
and the same chart is just repeated for each end of the zoom range.

Also, they're pulling the same stunt that Sigma have been doing for years,
showing the 30 lp/mm figures instead of the standard 40 lp/mm ones.
As sensor resolutions increase, that's even less helpful than ever.

Update:

I just checked the Japanese page for this lens:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/k/standard/hdpentax-da-16-85/

It shows different charts, one (theoretical) ray-traced, one taking diffraction into account.
But I still can't find any mention of the aperture.

Last edited by lytrytyr; 10-30-2014 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Comparing Japanese and English lens pages.
10-30-2014, 06:24 AM   #441
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Most lenses tend to give they best IQ in the f/4-f/8 range even if they can be used at f/1.4. As for needing lot of light this really depend on the condition but for my usage and without making any effort I tend to shoot much more in the iso 100-400 range than in the 800+ iso range where noise could negatively affect quality.

I would add that from my experience if you want a high quality shoot you DON'T shoot it at high iso at all. You use a tripod and stop down. You ensure there enough light to begin with or add it if necessary with a set of flashes.

I agree there a case where you have to take low light shoot of moving objects and where you can't make use of artificial lights. But that's not that often and for many pro activities (not all), the flashes and tripod will part of the game anyway !

If you shoot in low light for me it should be because you want to show theses conditions specifically. I mean if this to take a portrait of somebody and want it to make it as good as possible, there no way to avoid good lighting. That part of taking photo: gathering the light. Not avoiding it !

A high end camera in difficult condition might give better results than entry level camera... Still it will not shine as much as either camera in good conditions. You should be after thoses good condition to get a good shoot !
Sounds like what I've been repeating for years... maybe another 10 or 20 people saying it and it will start to sink in.

I always go for the best possible image of a subject... and that will always be taken in good light.
Saying a camera is better in low light is saying, the image won't be as good, but it will be the best of the bad.
I don't judge cameras by the best of the bad.. I judge them by the best of the best.

The only use I have personally for good high ISO performance would be birds in flight, where I'd like to have both Depth of Field and a fast shutter speed. But you could add sports or any action to that list.

I should also throw in, in that circumstance, APS-c gives you more DoF at a wider Aperture than FF, helping you keep your shutter speed high, while maintaining DoF.

---------- Post added 10-30-14 at 09:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Interesting to see that Ricoh are now providing MTF charts for one of their lenses.
They haven't done this in the (recent) past.

But unfortunately, the charts are not very helpful.
There is no indication of the aperture,
and the same chart is just repeated for each end of the zoom range.

Also, they're pulling the same stunt that Sigma have been doing for years,
showing the 30 lp/mm figures instead of the standard 40 lp/mm ones.
As sensor resolutions increase, that's even less helpful than ever.
Good for you, you got something out of their charts.. I looked at it and wondered, "where do I get a tutorial that tells me what this means?"
10-30-2014, 06:31 AM   #442
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Good for you, you got something out of their charts.. I looked at it and wondered, "where do I get a tutorial that tells me what this means?"
I thought the same and first thing that comes up is this. Now I supposedly know this too.
10-30-2014, 06:42 AM   #443
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I looked at it and wondered, "where do I get a tutorial that tells me what this means?"
I'd just wait to see what photozone/slrgear/lenstip/dxomark say about the lens. They will also talk about distortion, flare, decentering/QC etc, not just MTF.

10-30-2014, 06:48 AM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Good for you, you got something out of their charts.
Unfortunately, not that much.
Like I said, they're not very helpful.

---------- Post added 10-30-14 at 08:52 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I'd just wait to see what photozone/slrgear/lenstip/dxomark say about the lens.
Unless you're prepared to dig deep into the DxO site,
they won't give you the detail about resolution, etc. that classic MTF curves provide.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
They will also talk about distortion, flare, decentering/QC etc, not just MTF.
Those are different questions.
10-30-2014, 06:54 AM - 1 Like   #445
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The lens is simply too slow to be of much interest at this price. Assuming the lens is actually sharp enough diffraction will start to creep in at F/8 on a 24MP APS-C sensor. Of course given the zoom range of the lens, it's probably not sharp enough to worry about diffraction.
10-30-2014, 07:09 AM   #446
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Assuming the lens is actually sharp enough diffraction will start to creep in at F/8 on a 24MP APS-C sensor. Of course given the zoom range of the lens, it's probably not sharp enough to worry about diffraction.
The MTF charts on the Japanese page
HD PENTAX-DA 16-85mmF3.5-5.6ED DC WR / ????? / K??????? / ??? / ?? | RICOH IMAGING
show you the effect of diffraction.

Whether you want to worry about it or not is entirely up to you!
10-30-2014, 07:37 AM   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
The MTF charts on the Japanese page
HD PENTAX-DA 16-85mmF3.5-5.6ED DC WR / ????? / K??????? / ??? / ?? | RICOH IMAGING
show you the effect of diffraction.

Whether you want to worry about it or not is entirely up to you!
Those charts are based on the fastest aperture for the focal length, so the 85mm side is at F/5.6. There should be no diffraction on a 24MP sensor at F/5.6. Diffraction won't start to appear until F/8 and only then if the lenses is sharp enough. The charts don't show diffraction across all apertures.
10-30-2014, 07:57 AM - 1 Like   #448
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Most lenses tend to give they best IQ in the f/4-f/8 range even if they can be used at f/1.4.
I have to disagree. An f3.5 lens is NOT a stopped down faster lens. Most lenses tend to give their best IQ stopped down one or two stops from their maximum aperture.
10-30-2014, 08:05 AM   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Those charts are based on the fastest aperture for the focal length, so the 85mm side is at F/5.6.
If that were true, the Pentax lens would be way better than the comparable Nikkor.
10-30-2014, 10:09 AM - 1 Like   #450
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If this lens is at least as good as the Nikon 16-85, and has WR, its a good deal. Kudos to Pentax.

Many people on this forum clamor for more Canikonesque lens offerings, and now Pentax offers one with its own little twist (WR) and people are complaining?
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