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12-03-2014, 06:41 AM   #706
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Canon 17-85 - Original MSRP: $860, currently $599
Nikon 16-85 - Original MSRP: $789, currently $619
Pentax 16-85 - Original MSRP: $746, typicaly Pentax discount is $150-200 (based on recent discounts on the 17-70 and the 18-270)

My my, things look more fair in comparison, doesn't it? Because when you go and compare the base list price vs the competition's discounted prices just to make a point about worth, it's a very silly statement to make.
These original MSRP price comparisons are almost useless without knowing what those Canon and Nikon lenses really sold for within a relatively short time from release. If history is any indication, the DA 16-85 may be $749.95 (per Ricoh) for a long time which then does make it stand out as higher priced than its counterparts. Those Canon and Nikon lenses are stabilized, too.

12-03-2014, 07:24 AM   #707
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
If history is any indication, the DA 16-85 may be $749.95 (per Ricoh) for a long time which then does make it stand out as higher priced than its counterparts.
It's just barely available for pre-order, let's wait and see.
I expect it to be available in "high end kits" soon, too, I wonder how those will be priced? There used to be quite attractive kit offers with the K10D and the DA16-45, at least here in Norway. They didn't have any such offer when I bought my K10D in Tokyo 7 years ago, but when I asked for it, they made a kit offer for me.
12-03-2014, 07:28 AM   #708
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
These original MSRP price comparisons are almost useless without knowing what those Canon and Nikon lenses really sold for within a relatively short time from release. If history is any indication, the DA 16-85 may be $749.95 (per Ricoh) for a long time which then does make it stand out as higher priced than its counterparts. Those Canon and Nikon lenses are stabilized, too.
May or may not so you build your case on IFs.
Second, those aren't WRed.

Other easy argument ?
12-03-2014, 07:56 AM   #709
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
May or may not so you build your case on IFs.
Second, those aren't WRed.

Other easy argument ?
Sure, it's a big "if" which is why I think it's foolish to just assume the DA 16-85 price is coming down in the next year (or more).

12-03-2014, 08:18 AM   #710
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Is it at all possible that this lens could work on full frame? (fingers & toes & eyes crossed as it seems that the other two lens introduced with it at Photokina 2014 are full frame)
12-03-2014, 08:21 AM   #711
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
Is it at all possible that this lens could work on full frame? (fingers & toes & eyes crossed as it seems that the other two lens introduced with it at Photokina 2014 are full frame)
Not even remotely possible.
12-03-2014, 08:26 AM   #712
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newtophotos Quote
Is it at all possible that this lens could work on full frame? (fingers & toes & eyes crossed as it seems that the other two lens introduced with it at Photokina 2014 are full frame)
Of course it'll 'work', it'll just vignette heavily. It's a designated 'DA' lens, ergo it was constructed to cover an APS-C image circle. So it's not even remotely possibly that it will work on FF without vignetting.
12-03-2014, 08:46 AM   #713
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Canon 17-85 - Original MSRP: $860, currently $599
Nikon 16-85 - Original MSRP: $789, currently $619
Pentax 16-85 - Original MSRP: $746, typicaly Pentax discount is $150-200 (based on recent discounts on the 17-70 and the 18-270)

Also woops, the Canon 17-85 isn't the comparable lens. It's F4-5.6. The 15-85 is the comparable lens, and it is $799 new and $699 after rebate.

My my, things look more fair in comparison, doesn't it? Because when you go and compare the base list price vs the competition's discounted prices just to make a point about worth, it's a very silly statement to make.
The prices I gave were the current UK selling prices. Including the ridiculous 600 for the Pentax lens

12-03-2014, 09:08 AM   #714
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And that is the problem - you're directly comparing the MY 2004 Canon 17-85 and the MY 2008 Nikon 16-85 with the newly launched Pentax.
12-03-2014, 09:12 AM   #715
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And that is the problem - you're directly comparing the MY 2004 Canon 17-85 and the MY 2008 Nikon 16-85 with the newly launched Pentax.
Are people really prepared to pay more for a lens just because it is 'new' ? I live in a different world ...
12-03-2014, 09:20 AM   #716
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Of course, otherwise they wouldn't launch them at those prices. And if there aren't enough of them - that's the easiest thing to fix, with just a price cut or rebate (increasing a price which is too low is not as well received).
You can't ask Pentax to match the cheapest street prices with a new launched product's MSRP. Make it 350 from day 1, then 250 in a year or so? That can't be, they have to make a profit.
12-03-2014, 09:32 AM - 1 Like   #717
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QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
Are people really prepared to pay more for a lens just because it is 'new' ? I live in a different world ...
Newly released products are more expensive than those who've been on the market for some time, that's how the whole economy works, across almost all markets.
12-03-2014, 09:53 AM   #718
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QuoteOriginally posted by bernhardn Quote
I had the same and choose this one!

---------- Post added 12-03-14 at 11:10 AM ----------

if you live in europe i can give you (maybe, i have to try) 5% reduce! i only need a name and E-mail for it.

(I work for RICOH)

---------- Post added 12-03-14 at 11:12 AM ----------

For Holland, Belgium and France it's for sure!
Haven't lived in Europe (France) for over 50 years. Does that count?

So your opinion is that the IQ of the 16-85 is superior to that of the 18-135?
12-03-2014, 09:54 AM   #719
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Newly released products are more expensive than those who've been on the market for some time, that's how the whole economy works, across almost all markets.
There's some truth to that but it's more exaggerated when talking about "new technology" than it is when talking about "newly released products".

The DA 16-85 MSRP isn't what I would call outrageous. The real questions are how long does it take for the price to get to a sustainable and stable level and how many lenses will Ricoh sell before that point.
12-03-2014, 09:57 AM   #720
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We're seeing this with most of the newly launched products, surely there must be more than "some" truth? I agree that "new technology" is a much better excuse than just product age.
Those Canon and Nikon lenses had gone through the same process; yet we're asking Pentax to jump directly to "10-years old" street prices?
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