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01-13-2015, 01:54 PM   #841
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
If it were feasible to build a 16-85mm f2.8, or even a 17-70mm f2.8, someone would have done so by now.

I just ordered a Sigma 17-50mm f2.8 for $514 Canadian. I have a DA 18-135, which is a more useful range for me than 16-85mm.

I think this is probably the best option. That comparison review sums it up perfectly, sigma, tamron and last place..pentax.

I dont bother with mid range consumer stuff anymore. Is the sigma 17-50mm a pro lens? maybe maybe not.

For once could we all agree on this forum that pentax has brought out something amazing/better or newer than a competitor, instead of playing catch up.

---------- Post added 01-13-15 at 03:58 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Yes, and apparently it does have good IQ and bokeh.



Um, what made you think it's designed for the indoors? Is it the 16-85 focal range? Is it the weather sealing?



So the 16-85 doesn't fit your lens kit, alright.



Do you see any competitor either selling a similar lens for $350 or a 16-85 f/2.8 (for any price)? No? Then I guess there must be a reason.



I think I read somewhere that SDM failures are only an issue with older lenses and that all of the recently produced lenses are fine.
Its not made for indoors. obviously.. Hense the reason for a walk around lens. Your lighting is not going to be great no lens will shoot in pitch black but If i am going to carry a lens on my camera for an entire day it better be able to shoot inside a lower lit area. Will this lens do that?

I do see competitors making lenses similar for alot more money, I posted a few that were similar.

The review on pentax forums that they did said the pentax 16-50mm sdm didnt live up to either sigma or tamron.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/909807-REG/Sigma_884109_17_70mm_f_2_8_4_DC_Macro.html


Last edited by harrisonww; 01-13-2015 at 02:01 PM.
01-13-2015, 02:10 PM   #842
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QuoteOriginally posted by harrisonww Quote
I dont bother with mid range consumer stuff anymore. Is the sigma 17-50mm a pro lens? maybe maybe not.
According to Sigma it is a pro lens, designated in the lens name by EX.

EX: Sigma’s professional-grade prime lenses and wide-aperture zoom lenses that maintain their maximum f-stop regardless of zoom position."
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sigma-lens-technology-popup
01-13-2015, 02:12 PM   #843
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
According to Sigma it is a pro lens, designated in the lens name by EX.

EX: Sigma’s professional-grade prime lenses and wide-aperture zoom lenses that maintain their maximum f-stop regardless of zoom position."
ahh Yes good point. Well sigma makes some pretty great products.
01-13-2015, 02:42 PM   #844
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
According to Sigma it is a pro lens, designated in the lens name by EX.

EX: Sigma’s professional-grade prime lenses and wide-aperture zoom lenses that maintain their maximum f-stop regardless of zoom position."
Sigma Lens Technology | Sigma Corporation of America
This is just a name... Really there no pro level gear, there only pro using camera and lenses.

01-13-2015, 02:44 PM   #845
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
This is just a name... Really there no pro level gear, there only pro using camera and lenses.
Replace pro with "premium" when dealing with marketing speak.
01-13-2015, 02:56 PM   #846
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QuoteOriginally posted by harrisonww Quote
Its not made for indoors. obviously.. Hense the reason for a walk around lens. Your lighting is not going to be great no lens will shoot in pitch black but If i am going to carry a lens on my camera for an entire day it better be able to shoot inside a lower lit area. Will this lens do that?
There no link between carrying a lense the whole day an capacitiy to shoot inside a lower lit area. Reality is just one need to choose a compromize of price/size/focal range/apperture. And carrying for the whole day there the need to have everything for every situation you might encounter and keeping the package light.

From actual offering a range like 16-85 doesn't exist in f/2.8 constant apperture. You seems to prefer less range or maybe 2 lenses (like 16-50 + 50-135). That's one choice with high implication in money spend and weight to carry.

But one need to think what he will shoot. If the shooting session include shallow deph of field, one need fast lense. If the shooting session include low light, one might consider flashes and/or fast lenses depending of the conditions. If the session is in bright light without much need for shallow deph of field, f/5.6 can be just fine.

There also possible compromize like taking - why not - a 16-85 or 18-135 and a fast prime or 2... This give you best of both worlds. More possibilities for shallow deph of field/low light, even more IQ at hand when you have to the time to frame etc... and a WR zoom when you don't want to spend to much time thinking or can't move easily.
01-13-2015, 04:19 PM   #847
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
There no link between carrying a lense the whole day an capacitiy to shoot inside a lower lit area. Reality is just one need to choose a compromize of price/size/focal range/apperture. And carrying for the whole day there the need to have everything for every situation you might encounter and keeping the package light.

From actual offering a range like 16-85 doesn't exist in f/2.8 constant apperture. You seems to prefer less range or maybe 2 lenses (like 16-50 + 50-135). That's one choice with high implication in money spend and weight to carry.

But one need to think what he will shoot. If the shooting session include shallow deph of field, one need fast lense. If the shooting session include low light, one might consider flashes and/or fast lenses depending of the conditions. If the session is in bright light without much need for shallow deph of field, f/5.6 can be just fine.

There also possible compromize like taking - why not - a 16-85 or 18-135 and a fast prime or 2... This give you best of both worlds. More possibilities for shallow deph of field/low light, even more IQ at hand when you have to the time to frame etc... and a WR zoom when you don't want to spend to much time thinking or can't move easily.
Why do i have to compromise? On anything?

I should be able to go on vacation, shoot outside in full sun and inside at a resort. I dont want to switch lenses I have primes if I want to bring a bag full of lenses. I think my argument comes down to I wish pentax would come out with a new copy of the 16-50mm.

Canon EF 24-70mm 2.8 <---- expensive top of the line all around zoom lens.
Nikon 24-85mm F2.8-4.. 595.... <---- Pretty sweet lens for the price.
Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 1400.00 <---- expensive but one hell of a lens. But i can shoot this anywhere. inside outside this is an ALL AROUND LENS.

I think im in the wrong section of the forum..

I just dont think this lens performance wise is worth 800+ dollars.
01-13-2015, 04:40 PM   #848
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QuoteOriginally posted by harrisonww Quote
Why do i have to compromise? On anything?

I should be able to go on vacation, shoot outside in full sun and inside at a resort. I dont want to switch lenses I have primes if I want to bring a bag full of lenses. I think my argument comes down to I wish pentax would come out with a new copy of the 16-50mm.

Canon EF 24-70mm 2.8 <---- expensive top of the line all around zoom lens.
Nikon 24-85mm F2.8-4.. 595.... <---- Pretty sweet lens for the price.
Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 1400.00 <---- expensive but one hell of a lens. But i can shoot this anywhere. inside outside this is an ALL AROUND LENS.

I think im in the wrong section of the forum..

I just dont think this lens performance wise is worth 800+ dollars.
Because using any camera-maker's gear is all about compromise. That's just the way it is. Move to another maker and hello a new set of compromises. Ideally, you want to choose a brand which offers the most workable compromises for your style of photography - not too many and not too insoluble.

If Pentax do go to FF, then the chances of a successor to the DA* 16-50mm are very slim, I'd have thought. Lenses like this will emerge as a premium line in FF as a 24-70mm f2.8. And if there is an FF line, then a guess is that APS-C will major on all-in-one consumer zooms like the 16-85mm or the 18-135mm, for the simple reason that this is what the majority of APS-C buyers will like and few are prepared to pony up for more. Nothing really wrong with this. It's just the way it is. Canon and Nikon do exactly this and I imagine that Pentax will too.

Imagine you go on vacation with three lenses, two of which crap out on your after two days. Or, you are relieved of them deftly and charmingly by a chap with a pencil moustache and, as it turns out, very fast legs. The choice is ranting and raving or working around the compromise by getting the best shots you can with the one lens which still works. Your call.

The DA 16-85mm has already fallen in price here by 15-20 per cent and chances are it will fall by another 15 per cent or so before long. It wasn't worth the silly introductory price but it will soon settle at a more sensible one. Then it probably will be worth it, if user and professional reviews check out OK. Too soon to know that one.


Last edited by mecrox; 01-13-2015 at 04:47 PM.
01-13-2015, 04:53 PM   #849
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote

The DA 16-85mm has already fallen in price here by 15-20 per cent and chances are it will fall by another 15 per cent or so before long. It wasn't worth the silly introductory price but it will soon settle at a more sensible one. Then it probably will be worth it, if user and professional reviews check out OK. Too soon to know that one.
Agreed.
01-13-2015, 04:59 PM   #850
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Because using any camera-maker's gear is all about compromise. That's just the way it is. Move to another maker and hello a new set of compromises. Ideally, you want to choose a brand which offers the most workable compromises for your style of photography - not too many and not too insoluble.

If Pentax do go to FF, then the chances of a successor to the DA* 16-50mm are very slim, I'd have thought. Lenses like this will emerge as a premium line in FF as a 24-70mm f2.8. And if there is an FF line, then a guess is that APS-C will major on all-in-one consumer zooms like the 16-85mm or the 18-135mm, for the simple reason that this is what the majority of APS-C buyers will like and few are prepared to pony up for more. Nothing really wrong with this. It's just the way it is. Canon and Nikon do exactly this and I imagine that Pentax will too.

Imagine you go on vacation with three lenses, two of which crap out on your after two days. Or, you are relieved of them deftly and charmingly by a chap with a pencil moustache and, as it turns out, very fast legs. The choice is ranting and raving or working around the compromise by getting the best shots you can with the one lens which still works. Your call.

The DA 16-85mm has already fallen in price here by 15-20 per cent and chances are it will fall by another 15 per cent or so before long. It wasn't worth the silly introductory price but it will soon settle at a more sensible one. Then it probably will be worth it, if user and professional reviews check out OK. Too soon to know that one.
It has not fallen at all in Canada and the USA. What is this fallen price that you have now?
01-13-2015, 05:25 PM   #851
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
It has not fallen at all in Canada and the USA. What is this fallen price that you have now?
My dealer is offering it at £499 down from £599. They say it's a special offer till the end of January but I don't believe the lens will go back to £599 unless Ricoh really are on the pharmaceuticals. By comparison the similar Nikon lens here is £439. Add on a little for WR perhaps, but I would say nearer the Nikon price is where the Pentax lens is headed. This is all in pounds sterling and includes 20 per cent sales tax. Your prices in North America may already be less than this for all I know.
01-13-2015, 05:37 PM   #852
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
My dealer is offering it at £499 down from £599. They say it's a special offer till the end of January but I don't believe the lens will go back to £599 unless Ricoh really are on the pharmaceuticals. By comparison the similar Nikon lens here is £439. Add on a little for WR perhaps, but I would say nearer the Nikon price is where the Pentax lens is headed. This is all in pounds sterling and includes 20 per cent sales tax. Your prices in North America may already be less than this for all I know.
USA price is about GBP 500 ($750) without sales tax.
01-13-2015, 05:52 PM   #853
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
USA price is about GBP 500 ($750) without sales tax.
Pentax HD PENTAX DA 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 ED DC WR Lens 21387 B&H
01-13-2015, 05:58 PM   #854
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On Amazon they only list two sellers:
$710 but out of stock
$896 and only one in stock
B&H is $746 in stock
Adorama is $746 but out of stock

So a surprisingly difficult lens to get hands on. Either production is not keeping up, having QC troubles or no dealers in the US ordered very many. Highly puzzling......
01-13-2015, 06:01 PM   #855
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
On Amazon they only list two sellers:
$710 but out of stock
$896 and only one in stock
B&H is $746 in stock
Adorama is $746 but out of stock

So a surprisingly difficult lens to get hands on. Either production is not keeping up, having QC troubles or no dealers in the US ordered very many. Highly puzzling......
Earlier today, since I am considering buying this lens, I checked for any user reviews on Amazon in the UK, USA, France, Germany and Japan. There isn't one. Again, a bit unusual really especially in Japan and France where Pentax is very popular.
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