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01-26-2015, 10:56 AM - 3 Likes   #871
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
The price doesn't justify even thinking of upgrading. WR is great , but so what if its only 2mm wider. I would consider adding it to the arsenal , but the average price VS. lens mediocrity Kills it !
Yeah, don't own, don't know it but spit on it.
Usual...

01-26-2015, 06:57 PM   #872
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah, don't own, don't know it but spit on it.
Usual...
No...I don't own one...and No...it hasn't been reviewed hardly at all. BUT....I have eyes and can see the speed...or should I say lack of it ? So for right now with a price of $700-$800....I spit on it ! Now if it were $400...Maybe I would love it for what it is....probably just another piece of moderately sharp , obviously rather slow ,Pentax glass.
Its obvious to most....its not going to be something to write home about.
01-26-2015, 07:33 PM - 1 Like   #873
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
Its obvious to most....its not going to be something to write home about.
Not sure how it can obvious to anyone. You might be right but there is no way you can actually know anything until someone actually reviews it.

The Nikon 16-85 is essentially identical and lists for $700 and the Pentax one lists for $749, why would the Pentax lens be any cheaper? Yes you can buy the Nikon for less as it is in stock and discounted. The Pentax one is sold out or nearly so everywhere I looked. Amazon only lists one and says 20-40 days for shipping.

You don't like it, that's fine your opinion. But trashing something you have not seen, has not been reviewed and on which you cannot possibly have any real facts is a little absurd.

I'm not a buyer at $750 but someone sure is or they would be in stock and the price coming down.
01-26-2015, 09:53 PM   #874
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not sure how it can obvious to anyone. You might be right but there is no way you can actually know anything until someone actually reviews it.

The Nikon 16-85 is essentially identical and lists for $700 and the Pentax one lists for $749, why would the Pentax lens be any cheaper? Yes you can buy the Nikon for less as it is in stock and discounted. The Pentax one is sold out or nearly so everywhere I looked. Amazon only lists one and says 20-40 days for shipping.

You don't like it, that's fine your opinion. But trashing something you have not seen, has not been reviewed and on which you cannot possibly have any real facts is a little absurd.

I'm not a buyer at $750 but someone sure is or they would be in stock and the price coming down.
Guys....Give me a break here. This is my point exactly. Sure it may end up being quite sharp , and even Great IQ. But there is no way around it.....Its overpriced ! And....its Slooowww....3.5-5.6 !
That FACT cant be changed.

01-26-2015, 10:42 PM   #875
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
Sure it may end up being quite sharp
How do we get from mediocre to "may end up sharp"?
QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
But there is no way around it.....Its overpriced ! And....its Slooowww....3.5-5.6 !
Exactly same price and specs as the Nikon 16-85. Ok, $49 more. Why should it be any less?

Yes, it is slower than I would like. I would have pre-ordered if it was constant f/4 as I do a lot of manual flash and variable aperture lenses do not work well at that. I'm disappointed at that. But as far as I can tell it is sold out just about everywhere. So either it is selling well or they have production issues. I'll hold my opinion until I see real technical reviews.
01-26-2015, 11:45 PM - 1 Like   #876
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
(...)

Exactly same price and specs as the Nikon 16-85. Ok, $49 more. Why should it be any less?

(...)
Absence of VR in the Pentax lens perhaps?
01-27-2015, 12:00 AM   #877
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Unlike many of the other lens manufacturers, Pentax lenses price decrease (more) with time.
So ...
01-27-2015, 12:03 AM - 1 Like   #878
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One thing I've learned (or I think I've learned) is that it matters not what the max aperture is.
It matters (often a lot) what the maximum usable aperture is...
I could buy a fast f/2.8 glass only to discover that IQ is horrible until f/8, or buy a "slow" f/5.6 lens and use it wide open with no issues.
That's why I'm interested in a review (and in the occasional forum members' shots).

01-27-2015, 12:34 AM - 1 Like   #879
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
One thing I've learned (or I think I've learned) is that it matters not what the max aperture is.
It matters (often a lot) what the maximum usable aperture is...
I could buy a fast f/2.8 glass only to discover that IQ is horrible until f/8, or buy a "slow" f/5.6 lens and use it wide open with no issues.
That's why I'm interested in a review (and in the occasional forum members' shots).
That's true but in practice f/2.8 zooms are usable from f/2.8, even the third party, cheap ones.
01-27-2015, 12:35 AM   #880
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Unlike many of the other lens manufacturers, Pentax lenses price decrease (more) with time.
So ...
Consummer lenses, yes.
01-27-2015, 12:44 AM - 1 Like   #881
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
Guys....Give me a break here. This is my point exactly. Sure it may end up being quite sharp , and even Great IQ. But there is no way around it.....Its overpriced ! And....its Slooowww....3.5-5.6 !
That FACT cant be changed.
Sorry to say that but he is right, it will stay 3.5-5.6... It is big and provide 16-85 range. We don't care honestly what the Canikon lenses are priced except if we think of choosing a new system through.

What we care if what we can have for the price. Not much more expensive is 16-50, constant f/2.8, not that much bugger, WR & SDM. I hardly thing this one would be of inferior quality at same apperture... But it would work in interior & low light. The range is a bit shorter, that's true, but you can crop, still agree this can be an issue.

Then there the 17-70 f/2.8-4 of sigma. Much cheaper very equivalent range, still better apperture. It may lack WR but it is much cheaper.

Also there the 18-135, inexpensive, DC & WR, bad picture quality past 70mm.

For sure this 16-85 is expensive for what it is. And if you can't find it to me is not because it sell well, just because there no many available.
01-27-2015, 03:51 AM - 2 Likes   #882
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I hate discussions where the whole crux of the discussion is the cost of an item. The real question is about image quality. If this is a decent landscape/walk around lens, then that's what it is. Pentax always launches products at high prices and then gradually drops them over time till they start to sell at the rate they want. This has been true for every lens I can remember, except maybe the FA limiteds, which over time have climbed a lot in price.

I'm sure the price will drop over time, but that won't make it a better or worse piece of glass. And yet, that's what this discussion has been about for the last ten pages.
01-27-2015, 05:19 AM   #883
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Unlike many of the other lens manufacturers, Pentax lenses price decrease (more) with time.
So ...
How much has the FA 31 Ltd decreased since it was launched?
01-27-2015, 05:25 AM   #884
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
How much has the FA 31 Ltd decreased since it was launched?
Pointing an exception to a rule to invalidate the said rule will do nothing but confirm the exception.

Anything else but Limiteds?
01-27-2015, 05:58 AM   #885
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Pointing an exception to a rule to invalidate the said rule will do nothing but confirm the exception.

Anything else but Limiteds?
Maybe this one:
Pentax DA 560mm F/5.6 ED HD AW Super Telephoto Lens - U.S.A. 22180

or this one:
Pentax SMCP-DA 16-50mm f/2.8 ED-AL (IF) SDM Lens USA 21650

or even this one:
Pentax SMCP-DA 60-250mm f/4 ED (IF) SDM Lens 21750

If exceptions only prove the exception, what methodology does one use to prove the rule? I think the answer reduced to "it's what we want the rule to be".
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