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09-16-2014, 11:52 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by danny09 Quote
..Why would Ricoh invest all its limited resources into developing a DSLR (a FF) which few (except forum wannabes like us) are even gonna consider? It doesnt make business sense...
So you think only a few members from the forums will buy a FF Pentax and that they have limited resources.. Brother!

---------- Post added 09-16-14 at 11:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LightBug Quote
Ricoh seems real serious about supporting the K-mount. I'm happy to know all my K-mount lenses will be supported by the endless supply of K3, K5IIs, K50, K30 that will be up for grabs when everyone upgrades to FF.
Good time to buy.. but may be short lived if they announce a FF at CP+

09-17-2014, 12:07 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Somebody already has, Tan. He has some pages where he tested them on film.

Most of the DA primes are fine, the zooms are not.

Others have speculated on the ancestry of these primes .... the DA35 2.4 as a cut down version of the FA35, the DA50 of the FA50 1.7, and the common design of the DA70 and IIRC the A85 or K85????
OT but just had a look, you could be right....

K85


DA70


Welcome to Bojidar Dimitrov's Pentax K-Mount Page
09-17-2014, 12:33 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Maybe in another 3 months the Aussies can claim a Full Frame is coming...
Pentax Australia already did that ... in 2013. The Aussies were well in front of those pesky Russians and slow-to-the-party French with creating false hope


I don't see any big reason for celebrations or parties ... yet. I haven't read anything in the last day that Pentax/Ricoh didn't tell us in 2012: "we're working on a full frame" (yep, you told us that two years ago), and "we're not yet ready to announce anything" (yep...um...we knew that too).

Ok, I'm willing to accept that this time around the rumour / suggestion of a 2015 release has some increased likelihood (maybe by virtue of the longer we wait, the lower the odds get). But I'm not putting the Champers (or Beer for us uncultured Aussie types) on ice just yet
09-17-2014, 12:48 AM   #184
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The camera manufacturer who cried "Wolf!!!".

09-17-2014, 01:06 AM - 1 Like   #185
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I don't understand why those who want a "full frame" digital camera don't just go out and get one.
09-17-2014, 01:07 AM - 4 Likes   #186
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Another interview at Photokina, this time by the French website Focus Numérique (literally translated: Digital Focus; they belong to the same group as Les Numériques, hardware.fr, Digital Versus and more):

Ricoh - Pentax travaillerait bien sur un reflex 24x36

Focus Numérique : Nous avons vu sur le stand trois nouveaux prototypes d'optiques. Elles sont vraiment impressionnantes et semblent taillées pour un grand capteur non ?

Kazunobi Saiki : Vous pouvez le sentir ? (rire) Après le lancement du 645Z, nous pensons encore qu'il s'agit là de notre modèle haut de gamme (flagship). C'est notre réponse pour les personnes qui recherchent la meilleure qualité d'image. En même temps, nous sommes conscients qu'il y a beaucoup de clients qui sont intéressés par le 24x36, c'est pour cela que nous avons débuté les travaux sur un reflex plein format de ce type. Par contre nous devons encore étudier le marché pour bien répondre à l'attente des clients. Je ne peux donc pas vous dire quand nous proposerons ce type de reflex.

Focus Numérique : Le 24x36 doit trouver sa place dans un reflex ou dans un COI comme la série A7 de Sony ?

Kazunobi Saiki : Pour le segment des COI, les clients souhaitent avoir l'appareil le plus petit possible. Nous garderons donc de petits capteurs. Par contre, nous sommes bien conscients qu'il faut des appareils de plus en compacts même pour les reflex. Si c'est le désir des clients, alors nous travaillerons sur des reflex encore plus compacts.


Translation:

Focus Numérique: On the stand we saw three new lens prototypes. They are really impressive and seem to be designed [literally: cut] for a large sensor, right?

Kazunobi Saiki: You can feel it? (laughs) After launching the 645Z, we still think that this is our flagship. This is our response to those looking for the best image quality. At the same time, we recognize that there are many customers who are interested in the 24x36 [format]; that is why we have started working on a full-frame DSLR like this. On the other hand, we are still studying the market to adequately meet customers’ expectations. So I cannot tell you when we will propose this type of DSLR.

Focus Numérique: Will a 24x36 [sensor] find its place in a DSLR or a mirrorless camera such as the A7 series from Sony?

Kazunobi Saiki: For the mirrorless segment, customers want the smallest possible camera. We shall therefore stick to small sensors. On the other hand, we are well aware that there is a demand for more compact devices, even for DSLRs. If this is the customers’ wish, then we will work on more compact DSLRs.


On a side consideration: note the interviewer's mistake when he states that all three new lenses, thus including the 16-85mm, seem to be designed for a 24x36 sensor .
09-17-2014, 01:17 AM   #187
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Having read the interview I feel that #19 confirms what I've thought all along. Medium format is the new "full frame" as far as Pentax/Ricoh is concerned.
09-17-2014, 01:29 AM   #188
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Breaking news: this is the 24x36 SLR Ricoh are showing at Photokina!



09-17-2014, 01:30 AM - 3 Likes   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by MD Optofonik Quote
I don't understand why those who want a "full frame" digital camera don't just go out and get one.
Let me help you understand: for those who are already invested in K-mount, and would receive maybe a 60-70% return on their investment on the used market, the prospect of "just sell-up and go elsewhere" is not economically attractive or viable. I'm getting really sick of that comment.

I, for one, have continued to invest in K-mount lenses (albeit Sigma in recent times) because I had faith that a professional and (supposedly) serious camera manufacturer like Pentax would not take too long to have a FF offering, like all the other serious players.

I'll readily admit that I was very wrong in that assumption, but that doesn't change the fact that I will be out of pocket by quite a substantial amount if I change now. That is why:

a) I'm angry (with myself for assuming such a thing, and Pentax/Ricoh for claiming to be serious); and

b) why I continue to complain about 'no FF' on this site, in the feeble and futile belief that Pentax/Ricoh might actually listen to their customers.

I'm certain I'm not alone in the reasons outlined above.

Do you understand now? Bueler?

Last edited by Poit; 09-17-2014 at 01:50 AM.
09-17-2014, 01:34 AM   #190
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Complaining does't do much. Buying high-end products might, though, as it would convince Ricoh there is a market for expensive Pentax products.
09-17-2014, 01:41 AM   #191
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645z isn't economically viable for most either, if that's what you're referring to.

I already have a K-3 and some DA* lenses (in addition to a K-10 and K-20), what else do you suggest? Pay for the production myself?

Last edited by Poit; 09-17-2014 at 01:51 AM.
09-17-2014, 01:42 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by MD Optofonik Quote
I don't understand why those who want a "full frame" digital camera don't just go out and get one.
Very true

Takumars: 5d/5dm2. The 5D classic is now cheapest option for FF.
K-mount lenses: Sony A7-series.

The rending of smc lenses is just wonderful...
09-17-2014, 01:53 AM - 1 Like   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Let me help you understand: for those who are already invested in K-mount, and would receive maybe a 60-70% return on their investment on the used market, the prospect of "just sell-up and go elsewhere" is not economically attractive or viable.

I, for one, have continued to invest in K-mount lenses (albeit Sigma in recent times) because I had faith that a professional and (supposedly) serious camera manufacturer like Pentax would not take too long to have a FF offering, like all the other serious players.

I'll readily admit that I was very wrong in that assumption, but that doesn't change the fact that I will be out of pocket by quite a substantial amount if I change now. That is why:

a) I'm angry (with myself for assuming such a thing, and Pentax/Ricoh for claiming to be serious); and

b) why I continue to complain about 'no FF' on this site, in the feeble and futile belief that Pentax/Ricoh might actually listen to their customers.

I'm certain I'm not alone in the reasons outlined above.

Do you understand now?
No you are not alone. You are however, quite positive about the 60-70% return on investment. My experience with trying to get rid of Pentax gear ends up 20-30% lower then that. At which point I prefer to just keep it as a painful reminder and use the lenses, where possible, on my new system.

Here's a copy and paste from my post yesterday in this thread on exactly the same topic:

Cameras are tools and should be used and switched according to the photographers desired objectives. Life is indeed much to short to let tools stand in the way of your creativity... If only that was as easy in practice as it is said!

I think this is one of the hobbies in which switching gear is the most difficult and most expensive. And especially Pentax is the brand which is the most difficult to get rid of. Once settled and fully locked into a brand, it's very hard to change.

After Pentax I've added Canon 5DII, Sony NEX and now more recently a Sony A7r with some lenses. Selling my mint Pentax gear at a realistic price has proven to be completely impossible. While it was super-easy selling my (third owner) Canon 5DII and lenses without a bad feeling at a realistic price. But Pentax tends to stick with you if you won't just give it away. So, I'll just keep on using it.

But not everybody can afford or justify to just add camera systems like you and me and just leave the old one on the shelve. So, I think it's perfectly understandable that some are completely stuck with Pentax. Stuck with hope of expansion within their chosen system and the disappointments that go with it.
09-17-2014, 02:02 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
No you are not alone. You are however, quite positive about the 60-70% return on investment. My experience with trying to get rid of Pentax gear ends up 20-30% lower then that. At which point I prefer to just keep it as a painful reminder and use the lenses, where possible, on my new system.

Here's a copy and paste from my post yesterday in this thread on exactly the same topic:

Cameras are tools and should be used and switched according to the photographers desired objectives. Life is indeed much to short to let tools stand in the way of your creativity... If only that was as easy in practice as it is said!

I think this is one of the hobbies in which switching gear is the most difficult and most expensive. And especially Pentax is the brand which is the most difficult to get rid of. Once settled and fully locked into a brand, it's very hard to change.

After Pentax I've added Canon 5DII, Sony NEX and now more recently a Sony A7r with some lenses. Selling my mint Pentax gear at a realistic price has proven to be completely impossible. While it was super-easy selling my (third owner) Canon 5DII and lenses without a bad feeling at a realistic price. But Pentax tends to stick with you if you won't just give it away. So, I'll just keep on using it.

But not everybody can afford or justify to just add camera systems like you and me and just leave the old one on the shelve. So, I think it's perfectly understandable that some are completely stuck with Pentax. Stuck with hope of expansion within their chosen system and the disappointments that go with it.
Thanks for the support Clavius.

I did think 60-70% was ambitious, but wanted to make a point that even that sort of loss was a lot of money for some people.

Needless to say, I think people like you and I need to make this clear to those who say "don't like it...then go away". It's a bit more than that...we've placed trust and invested in a company that refuses to deliver.
09-17-2014, 02:07 AM   #195
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Even if you're losing money, you already made up your mind (that Pentax is no good) and waiting won't make things better. Just jump ship and take the hit. Jump. Jump now!
Jump. Jump Now. - YouTube
I'll stay with Pentax, because it suits me better than other brands.
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