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09-17-2014, 02:10 AM   #196
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hmm, I don't believe this, why isn't this even mentioned during the PF official interview?

09-17-2014, 02:15 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Breaking news: this is the 24x36 SLR Ricoh are showing at Photokina!
Our conservative government is taking us back to serfdom and robber barons so something like this will seem advanced in a couple of years as far as Australians are concerned.
09-17-2014, 02:18 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Even if you're losing money, you already made up your mind (that Pentax is no good) and waiting won't make things better. Just jump ship and take the hit. Jump. Jump now!
Read my post again, and please don't misinterpret this time.
09-17-2014, 02:18 AM   #199
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"So, our engineers are engaged in the development of full-frames, but with the question of when to launch/release the product, we will want to carefully study the market trend." I'm going to do you Ricoh/Pentax a huge favour. Stop studding the market trend here comes the answer: Nikon is killing it with the FF, they are probably making more many on FF cameras and lenses then on other stuff. Therefore, unless there is some kind of revolution in the sensor technology coming and APS-C would be able to match FF with the high ISO/low light performance, you Ricoh should stop studding the market and start making FF DSLRs or Pentax cameras are going to be just an episode in a serious photographers' life; going from colorful entry level toys past K-5 II/K-3 to CaNikon and staying there buying lenses, accessories and never looking back... And personally, I would hate to see that happen for Pentax. But you need to provide the needs of your customers if you want to stay in the market, and no more excuses that if we want FF we can get 645Z/D. It's huge, heavy and it belongs to studio/fashion photographer, I'm not gonna take it with me for 4 weeks trekking in the Himalayas or any other travel/landscape photography trip...


Last edited by MichalW; 09-17-2014 at 02:31 AM.
09-17-2014, 02:28 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Read my post again, and please don't misinterpret this time.
That was for Clavius (sorry for not quoting him); for you, it might actually make sense to wait a bit - if you can afford to.
And I said that because he's seeing Pentax as "the brand which is the most difficult to get rid of". I wouldn't continue using a brand I want to get rid of...

Last edited by Kunzite; 09-17-2014 at 02:44 AM.
09-17-2014, 02:42 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by MichalW Quote
"So, our engineers are engaged in the development of full-frames, but with the question of when to launch/release the product, we will want to carefully study the market trend." I'm going to do you Ricoh/Pentax a huge favour. Stop studding the market trend here comes the answer: Nikon is killing it with the FF, they are probably making more many on FF cameras and lenses then on other stuff. Therefore, unless there is some kind of revolution in the sensor technology coming and APS-C would be able to match FF with the high ISO/low light performance, you Ricoh should stop studding the market and start making FF DSLRs or Pentax cameras are going to be just an episode in a serious photographers' life; going from colorful entry level toys past K-5 II/K-3 to CaNikon and staying there buying lenses, accessories and never looking back... And personally, I would hate to see that happen for Pentax. But you need to provide the needs of your customers if you want to stay in the market, and no more excuses that if we want FF we can get 645Z/D. It's huge, heavy and it belongs to studio/fashion photographer, I'm not gonna take it with me for 4 weeks trekking in the Himalayas or any other travel/landscape photography trip...
I think it would be nice if Ricoh brings out a full frame camera, but we need to be honest. Canon and Nikon aren't "killing it" with full frame, they just don't have any answers. Overall, SLR sales are falling and the Ricoh rep said that they expect them to continue falling. People don't need to upgrade as often -- cell phone cameras are better, APS-C cameras are good enough, mirrorless options abound...

I don't believe that Canon and Nikon have grown the pie by adding more and more full frame models. They just have cut that pie into smaller pieces.

It is very reasonable to release a LX-1D as an upgrade path for folks who have maxed out a K3, but expecting it to be a huge seller is uncertain at the least. With sensor stabilization, with the right body size and the right lenses available, it could be an OK seller.
09-17-2014, 02:56 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoanpham Quote
Very true

Takumars: 5d/5dm2. The 5D classic is now cheapest option for FF.
K-mount lenses: Sony A7-series.

The rending of smc lenses is just wonderful...
Correct me if i am wrong but we can not get AF with A7 once using K mount lenses...

---------- Post added 09-17-2014 at 12:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Thanks for the support Clavius.

I did think 60-70% was ambitious, but wanted to make a point that even that sort of loss was a lot of money for some people.

Needless to say, I think people like you and I need to make this clear to those who say "don't like it...then go away". It's a bit more than that...we've placed trust and invested in a company that refuses to deliver.
My thoughts exactly!
I do not really need any FF as a macro enthusiast but I hope a FF release from Pentax would push Sigma to make recent lenses K mount compliant.
I do not trust Ricoh in terms of lens dev and this newly released and too slow 16-85 confirms my fears. At the opposite Sigma worked miracles lately
Also I do mind losing 40% of thousands of euros i already invested in my photo gear...
09-17-2014, 03:28 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Another interview at Photokina, this time by the French website Focus Numérique (literally translated: Digital Focus; they belong to the same group as Les Numériques, hardware.fr, Digital Versus and more):

Translation:

[I]Focus Numérique: On the stand we saw three new lens prototypes. They are really impressive and seem to be designed [literally: cut] for a large sensor, right?

Kazunobi Saiki: You can feel it? (laughs) After launching the 645Z, we still think that this is our flagship. This is our response to those looking for the best image quality. At the same time, we recognize that there are many customers who are interested in the 24x36 [format]; that is why we have started working on a full-frame DSLR like this. On the other hand, we are still studying the market to adequately meet customers’ expectations. So I cannot tell you when we will propose this type of DSLR.

Thank you, Mistral75.

But anyway, this s*** happens every year. They say something of what we think is a FF camera. And then they release another entry level camera. Which is in some weird and untold ways innovative and have 1000 color variations.

Every year one and the same s***. This is a joke, or mockery, or one of the 1 of April's joke we are all are accustomed to, I dunno how to call it. Wake me up when this sadomasochistic wait is over.

09-17-2014, 03:37 AM - 1 Like   #204
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I know this is about FF and when for Pentax to release their entry in this field.

It seems that Pentax now decided IF to do it (yes), hence the FF lenses. But just not WHEN to do it, still studying and waiting.

In this regard, I consider the release of the Samsung NX1 a much larger event. It is a much larger threat to Pentax APSC business than, e.g., Sony A7 or Nikon D750 / D610. Esp. should Samsung ever come out with a good K mount AF converter.

Something they have all right to do, given their K mount lenses done for the GX10 and GX20. And reason (catch the K mount market) and know how too.

If I were Pentax, I'd start to panic rather than study the market ... Pentax, thull throttle now or never.

Last edited by falconeye; 09-17-2014 at 03:43 AM.
09-17-2014, 03:40 AM   #205
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Despite Samsung bragging about "Schneider" designing those lenses, they were made by Pentax.
09-17-2014, 03:49 AM - 1 Like   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Kazunobi Saiki: You can feel it? (laughs) After launching the 645Z, we still think that this is our flagship. This is our response to those looking for the best image quality. At the same time, we recognize that there are many customers who are interested in the 24x36 [format]; that is why we have started working on a full-frame DSLR like this. On the other hand, we are still studying the market to adequately meet customers’ expectations. So I cannot tell you when we will propose this type of DSLR.
That part that I've underlined alone tells all. It's hogwash. How on earth can they still be studying market and customer expectations?! They have the loudest, most forgiving, most patient, most repetitive usersbase with the clearest, most specific, simpelest whish ever:

They want a [INSERT ANY CURRENT PENTAX APS-C FLAGSHIP CAMERA] but with an FF sensor instead.

It is that simple. Any other improvements are a nice to have. They are stalling and milking this for all it's worth, because Pentax FF probably just isn't a good business case or something.
09-17-2014, 03:56 AM   #207
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I feel its true this time. Too many signs leading to the same conclusion. Sure sounds a bit similar to previous years but there has never been an announcement from a Ricoh division itself before just resellers. Also there have never been massive FF telephoto looking lenses sitting under glass waiting to be officially named. Plus the interviews and ashaiman's statements.

The reasons why they arent announcing it yet: maybe there is a bit of work left to do, more likely it has to do with the recent launch of the 645Z and wanting to maximize the returns on that and the K-3 before cannibalizing sales by leading some of these buyers to wait for a just announced FF.
09-17-2014, 03:59 AM - 1 Like   #208
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That we want a K-3 with a FF sensor is an oversimplification, and when all you have to do is to write some words on a forum in recognizable English, things are very simple indeed.
But when trying to predict actual sales vs. features and price points... for example, would we rather buy a cheaper 24MP camera, or perhaps we'd rather go with a more expensive higher resolution model - and a significant difference from the K-3? What features must be included, that won't get it past the price limit we would pay? etc. With their small market share, they can't just risk it.
Perhaps they're even down to two prototypes, trying to decide which one should be launched on the market.
09-17-2014, 04:22 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
Correct me if i am wrong but we can not get AF with A7 once using K mount lenses...
That's correct.
No AF, no auto aperture, no SR, no exif, no p-ttl, just pure manual of every thing, but only FF.

I am still keeping my lenses. Since I have most manual lenses, and could never trust p-ttl, the process of taking picture is not very different.

A FF rumor becomes true one day.
09-17-2014, 04:26 AM - 2 Likes   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That we want a K-3 with a FF sensor is an oversimplification, and when all you have to do is to write some words on a forum in recognizable English, things are very simple indeed.
Customer requirements may be even simpeler then I already stated: A K-mount FF Camera in any form, shape or price will probably do for the current userbase. It may not be for everbybody, but it would at least show the users that the Pentax intensions are genuine.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But when trying to predict actual sales vs. features and price points... for example, would we rather buy a cheaper 24MP camera, or perhaps we'd rather go with a more expensive higher resolution model - and a significant difference from the K-3? What features must be included, that won't get it past the price limit we would pay? etc. With their small market share, they can't just risk it.
Who cares any longer? The risk of fooling their users time and time again with empty words is many many times bigger then release a K-mount FF camera in whatever form.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Perhaps they're even down to two prototypes, trying to decide which one should be launched on the market.
And now, I'll quote Mr. Kitazawa again: "First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production."

That's what they said in 2012 as one of their plans for 2013!

Who can still believe them? I may require a lobotomy for that?
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