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09-18-2014, 09:47 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Did you see how they work? And who?
Did someone saw how Pentax is working one month before the launch of K-3? Nobody even knew that this camera was on the way.

09-18-2014, 09:52 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The purpose of a hinged LCD is similar to the purpose of a Refconverter, for tripod, macro and low- or odd-angle work

What is the purpose of a hinged EVF as opposed to a hinged OVF (assuming a hinged VF is even possible - perhaps substitute interchangeable)?
The hinged OVF is restricted to a specific alignment, like 90 deg. determined at the design stage. The optical view must be translated in a specific direction to end up in the view finder.

On the other hand, a hinged EVF translates a video signal down a wire that can be twisted in whatever direction that a ball joint can show a screen.

But even a hinged EVF, not cheap by the way, i think they can run $400 or more. But take a look at the picture below of my Nex6 broadcasting a signal to the android phone next to it:
[IMG][/IMG]

The wonderful thing about EVF, is now the signal can be easily broadcast, on the camera's own WIFI network to a smart phone like device. The smart phone need not be hooked up to an internet wifi but detects the camera's own local network of up to 150' in a recent test i did on my Nex6 using an android smart phone.

But coming down to what should be on the camera and what should be left to a camera's wifi network, i think a hinged or articulated LCD combined with a fixed EVF works great. clip on EVFs are expensive and tend to snag on lots of things as one tries to carry them or put them in bags. In most cases, hinged LCDs combined with a fixed EVF on camera, like the Nex6 fits any needs. Ultimately, a smart phone carrys any needs beyond that point to a smart phone which can be used on a camera at floor level on a sunny day or up to 100 to 150' feet away.

Frankly, a hinged OVF is "so yesteryear". Once a camera is outfitted for wifi uploading and establishing its own WIFI, like the recent Sony Nex family and Fuji's, its a simple step to use one's smart phone as an EVF. (Just looked it up on Dpreview, this is what Fuji's Feature report says for the XTI model: Built-in Wi-Fi including remote control from a smartphone or tablet

Wifi, EVF, tethering, remote operation, are all in the same soup together if designed that way. There was a report that someone was getting dizzy from EVF - sounds to me like the refresh rate was not adequate on the camera. Mirrorless and smart phones are leaping ahead of traditional DSLRs with their capabilities. My Sony Nex6 did not come with remote operation but required me to download a free app from Sony and install it on the camera and on my smart phone. Once installed, it takes about 15 sec or less to get both devices turned on to the app. Even though my Nex6 does not allow a touch screen, my remote android phone allows me to set a new focus point remotely using touch on the smart phone screen.

Last edited by philbaum; 09-18-2014 at 10:17 AM.
09-18-2014, 10:01 AM - 1 Like   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
Development of Pentax Full-Frame DSLR is Officially Underway | PhotographyBLOG
Great news...
Pentax is... Boomed!
09-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think it is a mistake to think that Pentax is in trouble just because they choose to remain a relatively small player in the market. Canon and Nikon have more risk in a sense, because they are bigger and have responded much slower to market shifts -- they continue to over produce SLRs and end up having to discount them heavily and sell their cameras against their own previous lines. As long as Ricoh understands what their market volume will be and manufactures accordingly, they are in good shape.

Asia is also a growing market, as compared to the relatively mature markets in Europe and North America. If they can have a solid presence there, even if North America is an after thought, they will do well.
Excellent post. Too many people post here with comments about how time is running out for Ricoh to bring this or that to market. That might apply if Ricoh was trying to get huge sales volumes from a new smartphone, but it's complete nonsense when it comes to interchangeable lens cameras. This is a shrinking, mature market (in terms of product life cycles and end user life cycles), with multiple well-established manufacturers trying to maintain cash flow without major capital investments. Everything Ricoh has done with Pentax suggests that the entire organization understands where Pentax can fit profitably in that market.

I've said it before, if Pentax is going to sell FF DSLR's (or FF MILC's for that matter) it will be to current Pentax customers. The number of current Q, APS-C, or 645 Pentax customers who have been waiting for "x" number of years for FF, and are going to stop purchasing Pentax products by such and such a date if the FF Pentax isn't available, is too small for any company to get excited about. The only incentive to enter the FF market is to maintain their share of the disposable income current Pentax customers have, which is relatively high. New customers will come from other formats, where there is far more opportunity to switch end users from other brands and other types of cameras. Along with selling camera bodies, these new customer markets also represent better opportunities to sell glass than current customers with a shelf full of K-mount lenses. It's no mystery why the FF Pentax keeps getting bumped into future production plans.

09-18-2014, 10:54 AM   #305
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Unfortunately, I start to understand that Ricoh had bought Pentax not for developing really new photo gears, but only for high margin and for long-term gain.
Only money and nothing else. Not simlply money. BIG MONEY.
When Pentax brand couldn't provide a benefit, Ricoh will sell photo division or cut it radically. It's clear as day.

Ricoh will produce only things which could be sold with max.margin.

---------- Post added 09-18-2014 at 10:56 AM ----------

Only developing? It could take 1-2-3-5 years...
09-18-2014, 10:57 AM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
On the other hand, a hinged EVF translates a video signal down a wire that can be twisted in whatever direction that a ball joint can show a screen.
Responding to entire post without quoting:

I've actually changed my mind about a hinged LCD. I include in my definition a universal hinge (U-Joint) similar to a traditional camcorder. I see the value and I hope Ricoh does a better job. I also see the value of Wi-Fi and making a Wi-Fi hotspot in/on the camera - but I question the ergonomics of actually using a tablet or phone as a default interface. I don't care whether the Wi-Fi is built in or plugged in (Eye-Fi / O-FC1)..

No matter how good EVF's get I believe my brain is programmed to prefer looking through glass. I can focus better that way. I DO understand that trasitional camera operators have a real challenge focusing 5D's. I know of a case where a broadcast video unit canned their 5D's and went back to traditional Sony remote VicdCams.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-18-2014 at 11:03 AM.
09-18-2014, 11:00 AM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I tend to agree, a k-3 version of FF (barring any technical difficulties) may be able to spark a fire....
K-3 is the try to catch Canon 7D (5 years old). But now we can see 7D MkII.
The body of K-7, K-5, K-3 is not body of professional camera.
09-18-2014, 11:05 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
When Pentax brand couldn't provide a benefit, Ricoh will sell photo division or cut it radically. It's clear as day.
Unfortunately for yourself, Ricoh is very unlikely to bring you joy by killing the Pentax brand. There is no evidence that Pentax is generating less net income today than it was in 2012 when Ricoh purchased it. There is plenty of evidence that Pentax is generating more net income now, and the potential to continue to produce more net income is good. Why would Ricoh put a stop to Pentax, when it is producing a better return than what the price it paid to Hoya is based on? One person could make a stupid decision like that, but a profitable, financially sound corporation like Ricoh, never.

09-18-2014, 11:10 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Unfortunately for yourself, Ricoh is very unlikely to bring you joy by killing the Pentax brand. There is no evidence that Pentax is generating less net income today than it was in 2012 when Ricoh purchased it. There is plenty of evidence that Pentax is generating more net income now, and the potential to continue to produce more net income is good. Why would Ricoh put a stop to Pentax, when it is producing a better return than what the price it paid to Hoya is based on? One person could make a stupid decision like that, but a profitable, financially sound corporation like Ricoh, never.
Me for one cannot wait for Ricoh to drop the Pentax brand and have Elon Musk purchase it. Then we'll have a Pentax FF with VTVL (Vertical Takeoff Vertical Landing) system that activates when the camera is being dropped.

09-18-2014, 11:17 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I question the ergonomics of actually using a tablet or phone as a default interface
There is an easy way to test it. In a retail studio environment, where the camera is tethered to a computer (best possible electronic display with near zero latency), does the photographer a) typically fire the shutter when looking at the remote display, or when looking at the subject and b) make camera adjustments at the camera or at the monitor? As a recent customer of a higher-end photography studio, it seemed to me the photographer used the monitor to do a quick check himself to see if something unexpected happened when he fired the shutter, and to allow us to provide immediate feedback on the poses and composition. So in a small sense, the remote device is part of the camera's interface because the photographer has the ability to defer making some decisions, but that doesn't seem too significant to me.
09-18-2014, 11:39 AM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
Me for one cannot wait for Ricoh to drop the Pentax brand and have Elon Musk purchase it. Then we'll have a Pentax FF with VTVL (Vertical Takeoff Vertical Landing) system that activates when the camera is being dropped.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGimzB5QM1M
As opposed to the more obvious camera strap/sling solution that is less likely to hit you in the groin.
09-18-2014, 11:44 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's clear as day.
Apparently the day dawns clearer in Siberia than in the Pacific Northwest. There are figuratively thousands of possible business scenarios that may be intended with an acquisition and figuratively thousands more than will develop in the first few years of ownership. It may seem clear to you, but not to me. Of course, you have the advantage of the Siberian day.


Steve
09-18-2014, 11:49 AM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-3 is the try to catch Canon 7D (5 years old). But now we can see 7D MkII.
The body of K-7, K-5, K-3 is not body of professional camera.
And also, could we ask ourselves what are you trying to catch with such bold and uninteresting sentences....
09-18-2014, 11:52 AM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I question the ergonomics of actually using a tablet or phone as a default interface.
I too dislike the idea of using the equivalent of a field monitor as the main "viewfinder". OTOH, good support for a field monitor (or equivalent) is a good thing, particularly if full live view functionality is supported. The was brought home to me just this last weekend when a bunch of local photographers did a late-night meet-up in the mountains east of here with the intent of capturing some aurora images.

This was the first for me in that I had never actually attempted to shoot the sky "on tripod". Accurate focus is very important and it is quite difficult to angle around to see the rear LCD when it is underneath and essentially parallel to the ground. I could not maintain the pose long enough Several of the hot-shots of the group were using their tablets as field monitors and managed the task quite comfortably.


Steve

---------- Post added 09-18-14 at 11:53 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The body of K-7, K-5, K-3 is not body of professional camera.
I have compared side-by-side and I beg to differ with you.


Steve
09-18-2014, 11:53 AM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Responding to entire post without quoting:

I've actually changed my mind about a hinged LCD. I include in my definition a universal hinge (U-Joint) similar to a traditional camcorder. I see the value and I hope Ricoh does a better job. I also see the value of Wi-Fi and making a Wi-Fi hotspot in/on the camera - but I question the ergonomics of actually using a tablet or phone as a default interface. I don't care whether the Wi-Fi is built in or plugged in (Eye-Fi / O-FC1)..

No matter how good EVF's get I believe my brain is programmed to prefer looking through glass. I can focus better that way. I DO understand that trasitional camera operators have a real challenge focusing 5D's. I know of a case where a broadcast video unit canned their 5D's and went back to traditional Sony remote VicdCams.
Good comments. Focus Peaking and/or magnified evf can solve focusing problems, some advocates would say they are actually superior. But it would depend on situation. I've done a lot of long exposures, and getting a focus is a lot easier when one can amplify the view such as in EVF. The ovf point of view is that liveview can be brought in for that use, which is true on a tripod. When walking about in the evening, EVF in a view finder is probably better than live-view at arm's length.

My brain was kinda confused when i first tried the tilting LCD screen. I kept trying to visualize what tilting the screen and lens orientation would do to the view. Finally I realized that all i had to do was look on the LCD to see what the lens was pointed at and to adjust the camera body/lens to suit the framing i wanted. And then if i needed to adjust the LCD for comfortable viewing, i would do that. But for awhile there, my brain was confused. So then the tilting LCD worked really well - TILL - i turned the body to a portrait view, and of course the tilting LCD does very little good in the portrait mode. The tilting LCDs are built really well and secure, not sure how durable the fully articulating screens are doing, but Canon's had one for years on their G1 PS or whatever it was called.
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