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09-22-2014, 05:08 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They'll have the user base they want - it just isn't the user base we assume they should have. We keep thinking they want to knock Canon off the perch, but that just isn't so. They plan to be an alternative, not a competitor.

They want to sell fewer. They're a small company supporting three mounts (645, Q, K) with two sensor sizes in the K-mount. They need to build out the Q line, build out an entire FF digital lens line and redo the entire 645 lens line. At the same time they have to keep APSc fresh and relevant and let it be the gateway drug for K-mount. They're just not going to play CaNikon's high-volume, low margin game - they can't win at it.

What they CAN do is sell fewer cameras with higer unit profit margin to a discerning group of shooters who will pay up for the value equation of more features for the price and the Pentax DNA. Over time they might even develop a small, loyal Dealer network based on lower volume, higher margin and relationship marketing (like Hasselblad).

At the same time they're starting this S1 line to attract younger buyers into the mount. That measn they're thinking about 2040.

I know it sounds risky, but that's just because it is unusual. They are patient, disciplined and absolutely dogged about hard work. I'll be dead, unfortunately, but I wish I could be here to see their victory.
I don't think that will be the strategy, because they could have done that already. They didn't. The reason not to introduce a Pentax full frame yet is that they don't have a professional user base. They lost that in the eighties. They cannot hope to regain it against Canon and Nikon. Mainly because of lack of lenses and third party support. Now that full frame sensors are becoming cheap enough to put in prosumer grade camera's they can and have to launch a full frame to keep their enthousiast users. I don't think it will undercut the competition in price, but it will in performance. Will it be enough? I don't think so. The A7 looks promising and once it takes off, Canon en Nikon will be forced to respond and Ricoh will just be too late. Ricoh has to develop and answer to the mirror less trend that is not just the Q and they need to have developed the concept already. I bet Canon and Nikon have. They could probably put an answer to the A7 into the market within a year if they needed to. But first they have to be convinced they are doomed otherwise because the dslr sales reached a turning point in comparison with mirror less (which they want to postpone indefinitely an that's why they haven't launched a feasible mirror less system yet as that would accelerate it). Ricoh better be able to do the same or they are doomed indeed.

09-22-2014, 05:27 AM - 1 Like   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The point is not necessarily to sell a huge number of full frame cameras. It is to give an upgrade path. This improves perception of the brand and takes away a significant argument for going Canon/Nikon over Pentax. In addition, it should make them money.

The reality is that even if they priced a K Mount full frame at 1500 dollars, they would never sell even close to the number of 6D/D610 cameras out there. But they don't need to. They just need to make sure their projections are reasonable and on target and then price the camera where it needs to be in order to turn a profit -- and include features to compete at that level.

Cheaper full frame may come down the road. This is clearly just a first step, but for now those who need cheaper gear would be wise to go with a mid-level APS-C camera. There is a lot of quality there already.
It's beginning to sound as if Ricoh need to find about 20,000 elderly gents with lots and lots of money and they will have a sufficient audience for their full frame camera. This is on the basis that if Ricoh sell 2-3k 645s a year at x dollars, as is claimed, then perhaps Ricoh could make things just about work if they could sell 5-6k FF cameras a year at half of x dollars with lenses priced to match. Every time you see a walking stick or zimmer frame coming out of the door of a Rolls Royce, just put a "Get a Pentax" sticker on the windscreen

This is what happens when you are late to the party. TBH, I worry that Ricoh are so late that the party is just about to end and the crowd are preparing to move off to other venues and other formats. It's all very, very risky.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-22-2014 at 07:05 AM.
09-22-2014, 05:57 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Every time you see a walking stick or zimmer frame coming out of the door of a Rolls Royce, just put a "Get a Pentax" sticker on the windscreen.

This is what happens when you are late to the party. TBH, I worry that Ricoh are so late that the party is just about to end and the crowd are preparing to move off to other venues and other formats. It's all very, very risky.
Unless i am missinformed, the same move has already happenned for RR buyers, so old-fashionned !
Guess : the new camera will be named KF-S1, and be similarly styled, because of the big success of K-S1, that will have blown any forecast within 6 month.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 09-22-2014 at 06:08 AM.
09-22-2014, 06:24 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
'cause (s)he is a Pentaxian!
My bad, should have used the term "photographer that happens to use Pentax" instead.

09-22-2014, 06:42 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
why would the average Pentaxian upgrade to such an expensive FF, if he can just as well mount all his legacy FF lenses on a cheapo A7?
Ummmm, so their auto-focus, auto-aperture lenses can work *properly*.
09-22-2014, 06:45 AM   #171
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Just think of some of these people as Canon/Sony/Nikon operatives with a PF UserName. It makes their reasoning so much clearer.
09-22-2014, 07:22 AM - 1 Like   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Your point is clear and valid. But then, why would the average Pentaxian upgrade to such an expensive FF, if he can just as well mount all his legacy FF lenses on a cheapo A7?
Because nothing could persuade me to buy a Sony camera....
09-22-2014, 07:28 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
It's been confirmed, by a Ricoh representative. What they have said though is that they're working on a FF camera, but they don't have a definitive timeline to market that they are prepared to share.
who exactly is that "Ricoh representative"?

it is just rumor ... just like in many years. someone walk in camera store and heard Pentax rep talking to store owner about Pentax FF will debut in that year photokina.

no, don't believe those.

09-22-2014, 07:42 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
who exactly is that "Ricoh representative"?

it is just rumor ... just like in many years. someone walk in camera store and heard Pentax rep talking to store owner about Pentax FF will debut in that year photokina.

no, don't believe those.
Yes, it's the same after each and every big photography event. Apparently the disappointment from this is always so big that somewhere someone always feels the need to soften up the truth with some fiction.
09-22-2014, 08:26 AM - 1 Like   #175
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I can't take this BS every day on 20 threads for the next 9 months.
09-22-2014, 08:27 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Actually I did not. A focus limiter would not be seen as an improvement by people who don't need it. Just something that can break the functionality of the lens by getting stuck.
Of course ! Where were my neurons? Focus limiter can break. OIS can't. Geeeeeeeez if only I knew...
09-22-2014, 09:01 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I can't take this BS every day on 20 threads for the next 9 months.
indeed.

really all is just rumor. enough already.
09-22-2014, 09:01 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Of course ! Where were my neurons? Focus limiter can break. OIS can't. Geeeeeeeez if only I knew...
Well OIS is kind of useful and when it breaks you'll just have to shoot at higher speeds you'll still be able to focus at close distances.
09-22-2014, 09:08 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Well OIS is kind of useful and when it breaks you'll just have to shoot at higher speeds you'll still be able to focus at close distances.
...provided that the stabilisation group is blocked in its central position, otherwise your lens will suffer from decentring.
09-22-2014, 09:41 AM   #180
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From those images it looks like this is what's coming:
The amzing full-frame 1.5 litre SMC Pentax-FA 1500ml F1.4 AL Limited Coffee Mug!
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