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10-06-2014, 07:33 AM   #481
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They could be naysayers for no reason at all. Which doesn't make any sense and leads to all kinds of wacky conspiracy theories. Or, maybe they're not naysayers?

Couldn't it just be that those nay-sayers have been disappointed much to often in the past, and that they are afraid to get their hopes up for even just the tiniest bit? Or just don't want to look stupid again for believing the rumors and/or claims?

Alternatively, after a decade of claiming that FF is not and will not be on the Pentax agenda, some users might just have plundered their piggy bank and sourced their FF equipment elsewhere. With all the annoyances of switching brands, running multiple brands and snipping aperture levers. Only to be confronted with Pentax saying: "SURPISE!". So it could also just be whishfull thinking on their part.

10-06-2014, 12:55 PM   #482
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
They could be naysayers for no reason at all. Which doesn't make any sense and leads to all kinds of wacky conspiracy theories. Or, maybe they're not naysayers?

Couldn't it just be that those nay-sayers have been disappointed much to often in the past, and that they are afraid to get their hopes up for even just the tiniest bit? Or just don't want to look stupid again for believing the rumors and/or claims?

Alternatively, after a decade of claiming that FF is not and will not be on the Pentax agenda, some users might just have plundered their piggy bank and sourced their FF equipment elsewhere. With all the annoyances of switching brands, running multiple brands and snipping aperture levers. Only to be confronted with Pentax saying: "SURPISE!". So it could also just be whishfull thinking on their part.
Until the Russians duped me with their FF by June theme I never saw any reason to buy in to the FF hype. I read all the interviews etc, and came to the conclusion, "no full frame". in fact my last "no FF post" was just two weeks before it was announced. All I'm saying here, is if you got sucked in by some imaginarily FF announcement, it's because you can't read, not because Pentax said one was coming.

So your logic that because they believed a Full Frame was coming , even though Pentax never said that, is reason to not believe Pentax, now that they say one is coming... ya, that's pretty funny.

Users needing equipment Penatx didn't produce is nonsense. There's a ton of equipment Pentax doesn't produce and there's very little chance Pentax will ever make any of it. You seem to be a proponent of the "everything that's wrong with the world is Pentax's fault" kind of attitude. From my perspective Pentax has been very up front about everything, releasing appropriate statements when it suited them. Didn't suit you? Bought into another brand? Exactly what's wrong with that?

If Pentax didn't have a full frame out when someone bought into them, but then changed their mind and decided they had to have one... that's not Pentax's doing. That them not being able to comprehend what Pentax was saying. Take an English comprehension course. Quit expecting corporations to keep up with your flip-flops.

Everyone on here who has jumped brands, has been in a hurry for something. It is not up to anyone else to fill your urgent requests. Do it yourself and move on. After all, who decided you had to have a Full Frame before Pentax released one? Take a little responsibility for your actions. After all, most of the folks who moved on to other companies are glad they did. Some folks like jsherman would have missed out on 3 years of FF shooting if he'd stayed with Pentax. And he's happy where he is. So be where you are and be happy... where ever that is. Don't be blaming Pentax. Imagining other shooters and why they should be mad at Pentax doesn't even involve a real person. What kind of person would voice the opinions of imaginary people. Is there no end to the insanity?

"Ya there might be a person like that somewhere, I better say what he/she thinks." The only thing that qualifies you to speak for imaginary people is you're one step away from the looney bin.

But it's interesting you should be here giving voice to and defending the nameless nay sayers. Is there like a nay sayers club? Are you their spokesman?

"It's all Pentax's fault... they ruined my life... oh wo is me."

Sorry, I just can't stop having fun with this, every time I stand up and try and walk away from the keyboard, I think of something even funnier.

If you keep posting I'm going to have to look for work as a professional comedian. Not that I'm far from that as it is.

Last edited by normhead; 10-06-2014 at 01:11 PM.
10-06-2014, 01:33 PM   #483
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
oh wo is me
I think that is 'woe' or is it 'woah' always get those mixed up........
10-06-2014, 01:48 PM   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I do that with my K-5/DA*300 on monopod hanging over my shoulder. Just Always have a shirt on.
I can see cooler toting man is in warm weather. I don't trust Arca so much in cold weather. Stiff grease loosening over time... Makes hair stand on end even with clothes on.

---------- Post added 10-06-14 at 03:54 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If that guy lost weight, the total amount of weight his legs have to carry would be so low, ...
Is that cooler full of beer and donuts?

OK, I have to stop doing this.
Close...

Cooler full of beer acts as counterweight to compensate for the weight of camera and etc. Pot belly is the human equivalent of flywheel for stability under motion. Inertia becomes a hazard...

At the end of the day, the the man is unsteady...
No. Not because of beer in the man = + blood alcohol
Simply because the counterweight of beer is gone to pot.
Flywheel becomes broken

10-07-2014, 01:48 AM   #485
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Until the Russians duped me with their FF by June theme I never saw any reason to buy in to the FF hype. I read all the interviews etc, and came to the conclusion, "no full frame". in fact my last "no FF post" was just two weeks before it was announced. All I'm saying here, is if you got sucked in by some imaginarily FF announcement, it's because you can't read, not because Pentax said one was coming.

So your logic that because they believed a Full Frame was coming , even though Pentax never said that, is reason to not believe Pentax, now that they say one is coming... ya, that's pretty funny.

Users needing equipment Penatx didn't produce is nonsense. There's a ton of equipment Pentax doesn't produce and there's very little chance Pentax will ever make any of it. You seem to be a proponent of the "everything that's wrong with the world is Pentax's fault" kind of attitude. From my perspective Pentax has been very up front about everything, releasing appropriate statements when it suited them. Didn't suit you? Bought into another brand? Exactly what's wrong with that?

If Pentax didn't have a full frame out when someone bought into them, but then changed their mind and decided they had to have one... that's not Pentax's doing. That them not being able to comprehend what Pentax was saying. Take an English comprehension course. Quit expecting corporations to keep up with your flip-flops.

Everyone on here who has jumped brands, has been in a hurry for something. It is not up to anyone else to fill your urgent requests. Do it yourself and move on. After all, who decided you had to have a Full Frame before Pentax released one? Take a little responsibility for your actions. After all, most of the folks who moved on to other companies are glad they did. Some folks like jsherman would have missed out on 3 years of FF shooting if he'd stayed with Pentax. And he's happy where he is. So be where you are and be happy... where ever that is. Don't be blaming Pentax. Imagining other shooters and why they should be mad at Pentax doesn't even involve a real person. What kind of person would voice the opinions of imaginary people. Is there no end to the insanity?

"Ya there might be a person like that somewhere, I better say what he/she thinks." The only thing that qualifies you to speak for imaginary people is you're one step away from the looney bin.

But it's interesting you should be here giving voice to and defending the nameless nay sayers. Is there like a nay sayers club? Are you their spokesman?

"It's all Pentax's fault... they ruined my life... oh wo is me."

Sorry, I just can't stop having fun with this, every time I stand up and try and walk away from the keyboard, I think of something even funnier.

If you keep posting I'm going to have to look for work as a professional comedian. Not that I'm far from that as it is.

...But believing people actually get paid to come to forums and complain about the brand is not so looney in your book then? Sure... But I do prefer to believe in people just not being able (or not caring) to keep track of the many direction-changes. Yes, possibly by not reading correctly or enough into the matter. People misunderstanding is a much more plausible theory then them being paid to complain.
10-07-2014, 07:04 AM   #486
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
...But believing people actually get paid to come to forums and complain about the brand is not so looney in your book then? Sure... But I do prefer to believe in people just not being able (or not caring) to keep track of the many direction-changes. Yes, possibly by not reading correctly or enough into the matter. People misunderstanding is a much more plausible theory then them being paid to complain.
As I explained before, I believe people who work selling other camera bodies come to the site occasionally and post as if they were Pentax users. That's different than actually get paid to complain. I do believe that either implicitly or explicitly it's part of what they see as their jobs. So once again, you're repeating old news, try and keep up with the current thinking.

When Pentax executives have come right out and said the Full Frame is coming, and people behave as if it's not, that's not mis-understanding, that's wilful. Where the will to do so is coming from is open to discussion, at worst it's sociopathic attention seeking, at best it's commercial interest. That it's wilful, deliberate and part of a conscious effort to discredit the brand is not really open to discussion.

There is absolutely nothing hard to comprehend in their current announcement. At this point marketing's only probable decision, is "when will we have enough bodies in boxes to meet initial demand without people have to wait too long after the initial release. They seemed quite comfortable with the 3 week wait time for the 645z. That's almost perfect. People get their cameras reasonably soon after they order them, and they aren't storing any inventory which adds to cost. That's pretty much the Apple model. I'm sure marketing would like to do the same thing with the Full Frame. Sell out in pre-order, maintain a 10 day to 3 week wait for new orders. That's logistical excellence. People saying the FF isn't going to happen, that's so last month..

Last edited by normhead; 10-07-2014 at 07:33 AM.
10-07-2014, 07:09 AM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
that's not mis-understanding, that's wilful. Where the will to do so is coming from is open to discussion, at worst it's sociopathic attention seeking,
Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists | Psychology Today
10-07-2014, 08:09 AM   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When Pentax executives have come right out and said the Full Frame is coming, and people behave as if it's not, that's not mis-understanding, that's wilful.
Yes, it's wilful and I say that you can't blame them. This is not the first time Pentax claims to be looking at the FF camera. At Photokina 2012 they said it too: "We're already touching base with a sensor supplier."

Fool me once...

Of course, the fact that there was a long period (of many years) with loads of rumors and "leaks", caused by whishfull thinking perhaps, prior to that 2012 statement, doesn't help either. Sure, they can't control such rumors, but it doesn't rid them of the negative impact those bring.



QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Where the will to do so is coming from is open to discussion, at worst it's sociopathic attention seeking, at best it's commercial interest. That it's wilful, deliberate and part of a conscious effort to discredit the brand is not really open to discussion.
I still think that people just venting their frustrations is a much more realistic scenario then wild theories about sociopathic attention seeking and/or commercial interest. We all know there are vastly more efficient ways of doing both.


QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There is absolutely nothing hard to comprehend in their current announcement. At this point marketing's only probable decision, is "when will we have enough bodies in boxes to meet initial demand without people have to wait too long after the initial release. They seemed quite comfortable with the 3 week wait time for the 645z. That's almost perfect. People get their cameras reasonably soon after they order them, and they aren't storing any inventory which adds to cost. That's pretty much the Apple model. I'm sure marketing would like to do the same thing with the Full Frame. Sell out in pre-order, maintain a 10 day to 3 week wait for new orders. That's logistical excellence. People saying the FF isn't going to happen, that's so last month..
I sure hope you're right! But I'm still in last month though.

10-07-2014, 08:11 AM   #489
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Just curious, how long it should take, from "touching base with a sensor manufacturer" (which would suggest an incipient stage of the project) to getting ready to market?
2012 was the first time someone at Pentax said they're working on FF - after the cancelled MZ-D. That's a fact. Really.
10-07-2014, 08:26 AM   #490
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Just curious, how long it should take, from "touching base with a sensor manufacturer" (which would suggest an incipient stage of the project) to getting ready to market?
2012 was the first time someone at Pentax said they're working on FF - after the cancelled MZ-D. That's a fact. Really.
I do wonder to, but it was said once in an interview that going to market with a new product takes one and a half year.

You need:
- new body
- new sensor module
- new SR mechanisme for the heavier sensormodule
- new firmware
- all the rest could be K-3 technic.
- at least one new standard zoom lens.
- a box to put it al in.
10-07-2014, 08:28 AM   #491
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Let's hope too - really, if K-1 is not to be ashamed of competition -, a new mirror-engine/mechanism delivering 1/250s flash-synch...
10-07-2014, 08:29 AM   #492
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When I spoke with Jim Malcolm, the impression I got was that he believed a FF was going to happen much sooner than now.

Although it's possible that I misread him, I don't think I did. Rather, I think the development has taken longer than an optimist would believe.
10-07-2014, 08:30 AM   #493
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@Ron:
And let's hope:
- new AF (even if just an enlarged version of the K-3's AF)
10-07-2014, 08:43 AM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
When I spoke with Jim Malcolm, the impression I got was that he believed a FF was going to happen much sooner than now.

Although it's possible that I misread him, I don't think I did. Rather, I think the development has taken longer than an optimist would believe.
Interesting. When I spoke with Jim Malcolm in April, 2013 he suggested FF was real but not to expect it anytime soon. He said many things had to happen before FF was possible and to "be patient". I guess anyone can interpret 'not soon' as one wishes but my sense at the time was not within two years. To me, 2015 would be sooner than I expected.

I think the most important corporate product driver is to Get It Right the First Time. This late in the game they won't get a mulligan. If it takes longer to get it right they'll take longer, just like making us wait for the K-3.

As far as the AF, I think they'll need to spread the AF points across the larger viewfinder, at a minimum. Improving the flash sync to 1/250 would be a logical step. My guess is, beyond those improvements, we see everything that will come in the FF on current Pentax bodies (and perhaps other brands) and the majority of the new work will show up in lenses.
10-07-2014, 08:57 AM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
...But believing people actually get paid to come to forums and complain about the brand is not so looney in your book then? Sure... But I do prefer to believe in people just not being able (or not caring) to keep track of the many direction-changes. Yes, possibly by not reading correctly or enough into the matter. People misunderstanding is a much more plausible theory then them being paid to complain.
A few years ago, a marketing company representing a certain PC component company paid people to register at various technology forums in order to promote products from said company and bash the opposition.
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