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10-11-2014, 09:13 AM   #526
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Correction...

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxino Quote
Nice shot, very sharp!
FA* 85 F1.4 @ 2.2?

Cheers,
Cameron

10-11-2014, 10:26 AM   #527
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For me, it's still a toss up, 645D, 645z, full frame, or stay exclusively with APS-c. So my natural inclination is keep the money in the bank.
Same with me, although when I think about 645D vs 645Z, I think the 645Z is still worth the premium… here's why:

I own a K-5 as my primary, and a K20D and K10D as backup and 2nd backup, and a 645N and 3 lenses. So my high-ISO limit is the K-5, and it's ok but not excellent.

I thought about the K-3, but I'm not in a rush, and now I'd probably wait for either another price drop on the K-3, but more likely I'd only get another APS-C if the K-5 died.

So considering the 645D vs Z, the 645Z has excellent high ISO IQ, and the 645D doesn't. When I consider where/when I'd use a 645D for what it's built to do, it's ok, but the 645Z is just excellent all around. And it has the same fps as the good ol' K10D. Seems like a no-brainer, right?

And finally, I can cross the 645D off the list because that body might be just a shade more than a new FF body anyway.

So perhaps I can get a 36MP FF for less than a 40MP 645D. Maybe that means that the FF will be 24-ish MP? So it doesn't eat into the 645D and 645Z sales if it were 36MP? Or is the D getting retired? And if it's 24MP, that's where the K-3 camps out, so… it could be the indicator that the 645D is indeed toast and they are just selling off the last of them, and the FF will be 36MP.

That means the decision is 645Z 'now' -vs- FF 'later'. That's notionally a $6k savings, in round numbers, if we peg the Z at $10k and FF at $4k including grip.

The only thing holding me back from getting the 645Z now is the voice in the back of my head whispering 'buyers remorse' when the FF kicks the 645Z right in the spec sheet. Maybe not in terms of resolution, but in all other aspects. And for $6k less.

I think that's an excellent argument for Pentax to price the FF quite high, actually. It has to justify itself over the K-3, but it can't be a 645Z killer for only $2500. Can it? I'm thinking in the high $3's, like $3750. Not $4k. (we all know Pentax can't do 4k anyway… snerk…)

Except, as you noted, glass; I'm covered except at the very wide end. I bet we some motion there before too long though… too much chatter about new lenses lately.
10-13-2014, 01:04 AM   #528
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For me, it's still a toss up, 645D, 645z, full frame, or stay exclusively with APS-c. So my natural inclination is keep the money in the bank.
I know the feeling. Things are developing so quickly in imaging technology, it makes it hard to make a good choice. I myself keep my money in the bank because I want to wait and see how things develop. But the next best thing is always right around the corner. And there's no pressure because the gear I have is really very good.

Chosing was much easier when it was all just about good optics and skills.
10-13-2014, 06:32 AM   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I know the feeling. Things are developing so quickly in imaging technology, it makes it hard to make a good choice. I myself keep my money in the bank because I want to wait and see how things develop. But the next best thing is always right around the corner. And there's no pressure because the gear I have is really very good.

Chosing was much easier when it was all just about good optics and skills.
Things are changing very fast right now. Samsung has released a BSI APS-C sensor and the NX-1 has more processing power than the Canon 1Dx. Performance for a mirrorless is all about processing power, and the new Samsung has a lot of it. Fuji & Panasonic are expected to release organic sensors in 2015. Sony and Canon are both set to release 50+MP FF bodies. Sony will probably release a new A7 body in Feb. and now that the A99 is selling for under $2,000 with a grip you wonder if Sony isn't clearing inventory for a replacement. Sony has some pretty high volume requirements for dealers, so they have a lot of inventory sitting on shelves.

Fuji has a big, fast lenses coming next year that just don't fit with the small range finder style of the current body line up. I expect that Fuji has a larger NX-1 style body coming soon. With enough processing power you can easily get 24MP, 10fps, totally silent electronic shutter, improved EVF, and much improved AF. The Sony A6000 already has 10fps and really good AF. Samsung is hitting 15pfs and we will see if the AF is as good as advertised.

10-13-2014, 10:36 AM   #530
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Things are changing very fast right now. Samsung has released a BSI APS-C sensor and the NX-1 has more processing power than the Canon 1Dx. Performance for a mirrorless is all about processing power, and the new Samsung has a lot of it. Fuji & Panasonic are expected to release organic sensors in 2015. Sony and Canon are both set to release 50+MP FF bodies. Sony will probably release a new A7 body in Feb. and now that the A99 is selling for under $2,000 with a grip you wonder if Sony isn't clearing inventory for a replacement. Sony has some pretty high volume requirements for dealers, so they have a lot of inventory sitting on shelves.

Fuji has a big, fast lenses coming next year that just don't fit with the small range finder style of the current body line up. I expect that Fuji has a larger NX-1 style body coming soon. With enough processing power you can easily get 24MP, 10fps, totally silent electronic shutter, improved EVF, and much improved AF. The Sony A6000 already has 10fps and really good AF. Samsung is hitting 15pfs and we will see if the AF is as good as advertised.
Yes, it's very easy to just wait and see how everything pans out. Especially if the gear you currently have is still performing perfectly well. If it ever pans out, because it seems like there's no end to the new developments.
10-13-2014, 11:32 AM   #531
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Then again... this is a PENTAX forum. I don't come here to find out what other brands are up to. I know where to go for that
10-13-2014, 12:11 PM - 1 Like   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Yes, it's very easy to just wait and see how everything pans out. Especially if the gear you currently have is still performing perfectly well. If it ever pans out, because it seems like there's no end to the new developments.
I have been pretty patient since I have been using multiple bodies, but I sold my Canon 5D and I have promised to sell my Contax 645 in December to someone, so I'm getting a little more serious about picking a new system. The K-3 is a great camera, its the lenses that are currently the weakest link for my needs. I think its going to take years for Ricoh to modernize the lens line up.

We had a nifty 50 photowalk this weekend. I was shooting my 50mm Sigma F/1.4. There was an X-T1 with a 56mm F/1.2. A guy with a Canon 5DIII and the new Sigma 50mm Art, and a someone brought out their Nikon Df with a 58mm F/1.4. There was also a Nikon shooter with a crop body (don't remember which) and the Nikon 50mm F/1.8G and a Canon 7D shooter with a 50L. Its a little OOC JPEG A3+ print contest. All the pictures are different because we are all shooting at the same time and choosing our own subjects on the walk, but since we are all walking together we have pretty similar subject matter and lighting. We e-mail our best shot to a friend who works at the local pro-shop and he printed them and met us for drinks with the prints after he got off work. He's the only one who knows who sent in what image, and we can't vote for our own shot.

My expectations were for the Fuji 56mm or the Sigma 50mm Art lens would produce the best overall images. I keep hoping the Sigma Art will be released for K-mount, but its not looking good. Sigma seems to be cutting back on K-mount support. The Nikon 58mm F/1.4 doesn't get good reviews from people who shoot test charts, but it won hands down for IQ. Because of the price and test reviews I had never given the lens much consideration. I don't know how much of it was the 16MP Df sensor, but the colors were great. The bokeh was excellent and it was way sharper than I expected given the reviews. The Sigma 50mm Art was second, the Fuji 56mm was 3rd...... The images from the other 50mm lenses didn't get any votes. The Canon 50mmL was probably the worst performer of the group.

The IQ of some of the newer glass is very impressive. Ricoh has a lot of work to do.

---------- Post added 10-13-14 at 02:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Then again... this is a PENTAX forum. I don't come here to find out what other brands are up to. I know where to go for that
Since Ricoh isn't actually doing anything it hard to talk about Pentax, but by looking at companies that are on the cutting edge of technology you can get an idea of what to expect from Ricoh in 5 or 6 years.
10-13-2014, 12:32 PM   #533
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
My expectations were for the Fuji 56mm or the Sigma 50mm Art lens would produce the best overall images. I keep hoping the Sigma Art will be released for K-mount, but its not looking good. Sigma seems to be cutting back on K-mount support. The Nikon 58mm F/1.4 doesn't get good reviews from people who shoot test charts, but it won hands down for IQ. Because of the price and test reviews I had never given the lens much consideration. I don't know how much of it was the 16MP Df sensor, but the colors were great. The bokeh was excellent and it was way sharper than I expected given the reviews. The Sigma 50mm Art was second, the Fuji 56mm was 3rd...... The images from the other 50mm lenses didn't get any votes. The Canon 50mmL was probably the worst performer of the group.
You mostly just said that the sharp lenses that perform well on chart didn't get any adventage in your empiric test and that one lens with bad review had the most love!

Wasn't it more the photographer that was a better shooter overall? Oh strange if we have to say it come from the lens, it didn't come from the lens with best charts results. .Look like FA43 could shine too, eh?

Honestly, the most difference to be seen for me is the photographer, and only for photographers of same level, the lens will play a role. And even in that case, creativity would win again. Use a lens baby for that shoot? Eh why not? Or try this with a polarizer, for some lightings, it will do 10X better than spending $1000 more on glass or switching systems again !

You want a different rendering, try the Brenizer method! I'am sure if one of the shooter here did it on the right subject, his photo would have been nominated, even if it did use a DA50 + K30 for that. After all, not everybody manage to get equivalent focal lens of 24mm f/0.7!


Last edited by Nicolas06; 10-13-2014 at 12:52 PM.
10-13-2014, 12:42 PM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
... The Nikon 58mm F/1.4 doesn't get good reviews from people who shoot test charts, but it won hands down for IQ. Because of the price and test reviews I had never given the lens much consideration. .
I shoot the 58/1.4G both on the Df and D810 and it does about the same. It's not that sharp at f1.4. So think of it more as an f1.8 lens.
10-13-2014, 12:53 PM   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
That so funny to think that the major difference for photos to be nominated was due to the lenses and not to the photographer.

I say, take an photographer that is better at his art than the guys of your groupe are, give him the cheapest 50mm lense you could find like a DA50 f/1.8 and he will get many more photos nominated than other shooters.

Even if you are same level, I'am sure FA50 will get you a few nominates. But that easier to think of changing lenses than to change the photographer... When you are the photographer in question !

Take an FA43, and you'll see yourself with a small unfair adventage compared to the others lenses.
That's not what we were judging. It was a nifty 50 walk because we were comparing lenses and to a lesser degree cameras. You have not idea the skill level of the guys in the group.

---------- Post added 10-13-14 at 03:28 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I shoot the 58/1.4G both on the Df and D810 and it does about the same. It's not that sharp at f1.4. So think of it more as an f1.8 lens.
The prints just had camera and lens written on the back. No idea the aperture/ISO/Shutter. Only one person didn't score it 1st for bokeh, color, & contrast. Since we weren't listing aperture we couldn't really score sharpness or compare. The transitions were very smooth and no outlining of out-of-focus edges. Just reading the reviews and MTF charts the lens looks like it is way over priced, but the results were very impressive.
10-13-2014, 01:32 PM   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I have been pretty patient since I have been using multiple bodies, but I sold my Canon 5D and I have promised to sell my Contax 645 in December to someone, so I'm getting a little more serious about picking a new system. The K-3 is a great camera, its the lenses that are currently the weakest link for my needs. I think its going to take years for Ricoh to modernize the lens line up.



Since Ricoh isn't actually doing anything it hard to talk about Pentax, but by looking at companies that are on the cutting edge of technology you can get an idea of what to expect from Ricoh in 5 or 6 years.
Wow, that's harsh... meantime I'm thinking of ditching my Sigma 8-16 and Sigma 70 macro for a DA 15 and FA 50 macro, to cut back on weight. Other companies have been really slow to match Pentax's line up. It will be at least 5 or 6 years before they catch up, if they ever do. If that's the way you feel, get the heck out of dodge. You're nuts if you think Pentax is going to play "me too" to please you.
I mean that in a nice way.
Seriously... you need to forget Pentax and move on, you aren't saying the things that qualify you to be Pentax user.
Really, drop in and visit from time to time. Let us know how the new systems are behaving.

Last edited by normhead; 10-13-2014 at 01:41 PM.
10-13-2014, 01:49 PM   #537
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
...
The prints just had camera and lens written on the back. No idea the aperture/ISO/Shutter. Only one person didn't score it 1st for bokeh, color, & contrast.
...
Some 58mm @ f2.8 shots at night on a Df:

Face Painting

Fair Ride
10-13-2014, 02:24 PM - 1 Like   #538
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Seriously... you need to forget Pentax and move on, you aren't saying the things that qualify you to be Pentax user.
Really, drop in and visit from time to time. Let us know how the new systems are behaving.
Then I would miss all the witty remarks from the resident Pentax apologists.
10-13-2014, 02:56 PM   #539
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Then I would miss all the witty remarks from the resident Pentax apologists.
Sure, but, we wouldn't be missing you - get it?
10-13-2014, 03:06 PM   #540
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Some 58mm @ f2.8 shots at night on a Df:

Face Painting

Fair Ride
Nice. I had written off the 58mm due to its price and reviews, but after seeing some more images from the lens it might be a favorite 50-60mm lens. I was thinking about picking up a D750 with a Sigma 50mm Art, but now I'm more interested in the 58mm and the 85mm F/1.4G. Add the 24-70mm F/2.8 and I would have the same basic kit I shot with Canon.

---------- Post added 10-13-14 at 05:09 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nakedgun Quote
Sure, but, we wouldn't be missing you - get it?
Aww..... You hurt my feeling.....
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