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10-14-2014, 10:26 AM   #556
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Anyone smell smoke, I can smell smoke, anyone? Just don't know from where it's coming from?

10-14-2014, 10:51 AM - 1 Like   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
This is the "News & Rumors" sub-forum. If it is something that they are "expected" to do, then sure speculation fits in this sub-forum. That's basically what rumors are.
I didn't know that your next lens buy in Nikon echosystem was a good indicator of Pentax next move...

Last edited by Nicolas06; 10-14-2014 at 11:05 AM.
10-14-2014, 10:58 AM - 1 Like   #558
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Wow, this topic is still going on with nothing new? I thought that perpetual motion is a physical impossibility, but it seems that the mythical Pentax FF camera and its constant next-year-release have reached that.
10-14-2014, 11:24 AM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Wow, this topic is still going on with nothing new? I thought that perpetual motion is a physical impossibility, but it seems that the mythical Pentax FF camera and its constant next-year-release have reached that.
It hasn't been about Pentax FF (other than tangentially) in quite a long time.

10-14-2014, 12:20 PM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Is that hard to understand?
On the contrary.
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
[...]The Pentax apologists [...] the resident Pentax apologists.[...]
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
[...]Fan-boys, brand apologists, and corporate loyalists [...] Are you getting paid by Rioch?
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
the resident Pentax apologists.
I understand we have to kill time until CP+, but not like this. Please.
10-14-2014, 12:31 PM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It hasn't been about Pentax FF (other than tangentially) in quite a long time.
Funny thing is, it wasn't really about FF to begin-with -- it was about photographyBLOG's speculation/click-bait. I'm not complaining, though -- it's been a great thread.
10-14-2014, 02:04 PM   #562
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To many it seems company's behaviour is "beating around the bush", because its timing goes, for this reason for that, against any user's expectation.
1. Ricoh acquired Pentax, and users hope for the FF, and users get a .. Q system, with tiniest sensor.
2. Then they hope / presume that some work has been done on the FF, and they wait again.
3. They wait a year to see at least an updated K5 into a K-3, and they get K5II a year after acquisition — practically identical camera to K-5.
4. Then they think FF is again around the corner, and they get K-3, a year after K5II.
5. Then they again think FF will come, and they get 645Z, 8 months later.

So forth. The FF is least important project, it seems. And some have hard time swallowing that. That is why we have endless threads on PF.
10-14-2014, 02:12 PM   #563
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Let's get the timing correct: the Q system was launched before Ricoh acquired Pentax, and they worked for years on that. It's definitely a "Pentax under Hoya" project.
And I wouldn't say "any user's expectation". I started to believe they're working on a FF, guess what, when they said they're doing it - first time at the end of 2012 IIRC. I admit expecting it in 2014... for a while Anyway, there are people basing their expectations on what's reasonable/plausible and less on wishful thinking.

10-14-2014, 04:47 PM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The FF is least important project, it seems
It does seem that way. The timing I'd agree with, too - at least I share that perception, since even the pre-Hoya days.

It's a good thing (for them) that I hate how cheap the 5DMkII felt. And then I held a D800 and almost jumped ship, until I did the lens cost math.

But that can go on for only so long; I either have to buy into the 645Z or have an alternate in my hands in 5 months or so; I have a bunch of gigs lined up for next year starting in May. I really, really don't want to shoot them on the K-5. That math will be interesting...
10-14-2014, 06:22 PM   #565
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Let's get the timing correct: the Q system was launched before Ricoh acquired Pentax, and they worked for years on that. It's definitely a "Pentax under Hoya" project.
It was a sleeper project. However, Ricoh did not come 2 days before the Q launch to buy Pentax. There were talks, then observations, negotiations, and Ricoh knew all the Pentax assets too well. Ricoh knew about the Q prototypes long before we did. By launching the Q on the same date when the agreement with Hoya was signed off, Ricoh has consciously committed to the Q line: to develop it, finance it and market it from that day on.

Q would not go forward if Ricoh was not interested in it. They gave the blessing, not Hoya — Hoya only gave the opportunity. All the same, we almost certainly can say there were FF prototypes during that negotiation period. But Ricoh was not interested in launching the FF. They wanted Q.
10-14-2014, 07:44 PM - 1 Like   #566
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Q would not go forward if Ricoh was not interested in it. They gave the blessing, not Hoya — Hoya only gave the opportunity. All the same, we almost certainly can say there were FF prototypes during that negotiation period. But Ricoh was not interested in launching the FF. They wanted Q.
You have intimate, internal knowledge of the timing and substance of the product development, cost/benefit analysis and projections of the Q line, the FF prototypes - and of the acquisition negotiations?

Which investment bank do you work for again?
10-14-2014, 10:49 PM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You have intimate, internal knowledge of the timing and substance of the product development, cost/benefit analysis and projections of the Q line, the FF prototypes - and of the acquisition negotiations?
Which investment bank do you work for again?
No need for geeky sarcasm that changes nothing in matters of real life proofs. You judge tree by its fruits. And how many years one takes to analyse the obvious fruits of a Ricoh's acquisition tree? I think 4 years is enough.

There was no way FF was commercially plausible for Ricoh immediately, despite the fact that a K-5 with a larger pentaprism can be equipped with it and launched. That was much easier than launching a new mirrorless system. But Q was plausible and Q was needed because it was a mirrorless project. A long term, mirrorless project for that matter, that is a foot in the door for the future. K mount obviously is not a way to the future. A side-road perhaps.

So my point was, it was futile to wait for the Pentax FF, and still is in some respects. There is no need to grind teeth about it, just accept as one of those life's ironies: do not make predictions about reality based on fancy expectations.
10-15-2014, 12:06 AM   #568
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Even if one think Pentax will release an FF soon, if he want a somewhat solid echosystem arround it, he will need to wait at least 5 years for most common lenses to be available. And that is thinking that Pentax will release an FF. Maybe the rumors are wrong, or a marketing studies they are doing right now will show they'll simply loose money doing that. One should not expect them to release a product for fullfilling some forumer dream, bur to make some money. At least not to loose money.

The most logical solution for somebody that really want his kit arround an FF body now is to look in what is available on the market now. Not to wait 5 more years hoping for Pentax to come up with something. I mean we might have one body in a few month... or 1-2 more years. That possible. With maybe 2-4 lenses anounced for it. Including a maybe 2 kit lenses and 2 f/2.8 zoom. The lense you want may not be there. The body you want neither. It only later that several body will be available and enough lenses will be available.

There also the expections one need to have for lenses and their design. If you are after a small and compact system, maybe well you are not that interrested in FF to begin with. And if you still are, you may very well then this time wait for Pentax. I mean Pentax FF + FA31 + FA43 + FA77 is not bad and still quite compact for the quality you'll get compared to many other brands. You'll have to be happy and a few other lenses for quite some time, as nothing else will be available than a bunch of old prime (no UWA) and a few zoom launched for the body.

If you really like the fast lenses with ultimate sharpness as show in charts, I'am sorry to say that Pentax didn't really ever invest into that for K mount. They may be the sharpness king, far better than Nikon/Canon/Fuji/Sony if you look at their 645 echosystem. No really if you look at K mount. So if you like ultimate sharpness... and even more if you want it with a very fair price, like sigma does. Well this is not really Pentax that will provide that. Not for APSC, and also unlikely for FF.
10-15-2014, 01:22 AM   #569
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And the first prize for Wild Speculation Presented As Facts goes to...
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It was a sleeper project. However, Ricoh did not come 2 days before the Q launch to buy Pentax. There were talks, then observations, negotiations, and Ricoh knew all the Pentax assets too well. Ricoh knew about the Q prototypes long before we did. By launching the Q on the same date when the agreement with Hoya was signed off, Ricoh has consciously committed to the Q line: to develop it, finance it and market it from that day on.

Q would not go forward if Ricoh was not interested in it. They gave the blessing, not Hoya — Hoya only gave the opportunity. All the same, we almost certainly can say there were FF prototypes during that negotiation period. But Ricoh was not interested in launching the FF. They wanted Q.
What are you trying to say, that Ricoh told Hoya "no, we don't want a FF line-up, do the small sensor MILC instead"? As if they were equivalent (I strongly disagree with the claim that a FF would be easier, it's the other way around).
Who developed the Q? (I remember reading that its development started some 5 years before, and they were waiting for a better sensor) Who made it production-ready? Who launched it? Don't tell me Ricoh started taking decisions a full year before the deal actually took place. Don't tell me Hoya would decide to invest money into a system or another, before a sell-out, based on what the buyer wishes. If anything was changed by the Hoya-Ricoh talks, it was the immediate postponement of all K-mount announcements. By Hoya.

And yes, it would take a company years just to analyze their new acquisition's assets and decide what to do with the ongoing projects. Not just some talks done by the upper management.

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-15-2014 at 04:53 AM.
10-15-2014, 03:46 AM   #570
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Ricoh's ability to influence companies pre-acquisition must be phenomenal. Apparently, they were behind the Q series. Another poster suggested they were responsible for making coloured DSLRs. Now, I can exclusively reveal that Ricoh used proprietary mind-control technologies to make Hoya lay off all their best lens designers and hire Marc Newson instead.

The truth is out there!
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