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10-27-2014, 04:31 PM - 1 Like   #691
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think 'mistakenly released picture' is the most probable explanation.
Daughter: "Mummy, mummy, look I have found a picture of daddy in your red bra and with pink lipstick..."
Mum: "But dear, I have no red bra — only a white bra, and my lipstick is red ..." ...

What this compromised photograph does in Ricoh's email folder? THAT is the question you have not asked, and THAT reveals a big problem.
It is not that "dad was wearing a wrong bra and wrong lipstick", but why he wants to wear them at all, and who gave them to him?

This is all a consequence of deliberately ignored marketing commitment. They have none to speak of. They are charlatans, or quite close to be one. Being blind and deaf to the obvious requirements, and constantly ignoring them:
— Using Canon camera to advertise their own Theta, while their Pentax cameras beg for some attention in marketing.
— Using Canon setup to take Q7 shots.
— Using Nikon D600 to make advertising for K-3.
— Then using K-3 to tell how it is a great FF replacement (who needs FF when you have K-3,), and then use D600 as an example and how K-3 beats it!
— Using stock photograph to promote a product they have no material about.
— Steal other people's photographs for their branch website.

Lying. Cheating. Montaging. Hiding the truth. That is NOT marketing.
This is the confirmation of our fears and lamentations that go on for ages. Now, like a boomerang, sloppiness hits them back in the head.
It hurts? They have deserved it. Big time!

This is Ricoh Japan's direct fault. They have to deliver images for the marketing campaign of any kind for the products. Because they are designing the camera in the first place! One cannot design something if one does not know who is the market segment, or the audience for the new product. Or what problem a product solves and why it exists.


Last edited by Uluru; 10-27-2014 at 04:54 PM.
10-27-2014, 04:39 PM   #692
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I think it's reasonable for the larger markets to have their own marketing campaigns. The models and campaigns that work for Japan wouldn't necessarily work for China, Europe, or the United States.

I think this was an innocent mistake. Regrettable, sure. But no one was insulting our collective intelligence.
10-27-2014, 05:26 PM - 1 Like   #693
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I was in a large store in Tokyo yesterday (Bic Camera Shinjuku, to be precise) and they label their best selling products in each category. DSLRs:
1st - Nikon D3300
2nd - Canon Kiss X7 (Japanese name for the really small one)
3rd - Pentax K-S1

Interesting that these are all very small and light and they all have a non-black option. The thing is, when you pick up these cameras, it's immediately apparent that the K-S1 is more solid than its competitors, has a better grip, has a far better viewfinder and also has a lot more advanced features. I still think they lose sales because of the focusing and shutter noise, though.
10-27-2014, 05:32 PM   #694
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Some people are determined to see the negative in everything.

10-27-2014, 10:32 PM   #695
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Some people are determined to see the negative in everything.
Yep we should take measures to organize a general troll famine.
Maybe trolls will get tired and move one.
10-28-2014, 12:08 AM   #696
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I still think they lose sales because of the focusing and shutter noise, though.
Thanks for the "field report" from Tokyo!

This camera really needs a redesigned compact kit zoom with silent AF. But is the shutter really noisier than the competition? That's a shame. My K-5 is less noisy than most mirrorless cameras.
10-28-2014, 12:48 AM   #697
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
*snip* (Bic Camera Shinjuku, to be precise) *snip*
OT: boy, do I hate that jingle... it sticks!!!
10-28-2014, 05:25 AM   #698
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
And here is the result. The result was amateurish execution in forced conclusion about the use of K-S1. And the good providence enabled us to see what they have done in the process and what the company thinks about its users.
Wait... Is that a real thing? I mean, did Pentax actually use that image? 'Cause that's hilariously inept.

10-28-2014, 05:38 AM   #699
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I was in a large store in Tokyo yesterday (Bic Camera Shinjuku, to be precise) and they label their best selling products in each category. DSLRs:
1st - Nikon D3300
2nd - Canon Kiss X7 (Japanese name for the really small one)
3rd - Pentax K-S1

Interesting that these are all very small and light and they all have a non-black option. The thing is, when you pick up these cameras, it's immediately apparent that the K-S1 is more solid than its competitors, has a better grip, has a far better viewfinder and also has a lot more advanced features. I still think they lose sales because of the focusing and shutter noise, though.
So you're saying it's slower focusing than it's competition, and noisier?

Did you try the Nikon D3300. I tried a D3200 once and found it neither faster focusing and definitely not quieter, but hey, things can change. This is the first time I've heard of a Pentax described as noisy.
10-28-2014, 06:00 AM   #700
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Pentax shutter and mirror are really very quiet. The screwdrive is just as noisy as any screwdrive AF system: terribly noisy.
10-28-2014, 06:04 AM   #701
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Pentax shutter and mirror are really very quiet. The screwdrive is just as noisy as any screwdrive AF system: terribly noisy.

And used on my F-70-210 will rip the camera right out of my hand... but we digress.
10-28-2014, 07:04 AM   #702
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So you're saying it's slower focusing than it's competition, and noisier?

Did you try the Nikon D3300. I tried a D3200 once and found it neither faster focusing and definitely not quieter, but hey, things can change. This is the first time I've heard of a Pentax described as noisy.
I think the lenses sold as kit lenses for Nikon and Canon all have ultrasonic motors -- quiet, but not super speedy. My experience with the Pentax kit lens (DAL version) is that it is fast enough with regard to speed, but it is pretty loud.

---------- Post added 10-28-14 at 10:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Daughter: "Mummy, mummy, look I have found a picture of daddy in your red bra and with pink lipstick..."
Mum: "But dear, I have no red bra only a white bra, and my lipstick is red ..." ...

What this compromised photograph does in Ricoh's email folder? THAT is the question you have not asked, and THAT reveals a big problem.
It is not that "dad was wearing a wrong bra and wrong lipstick", but why he wants to wear them at all, and who gave them to him?

This is all a consequence of deliberately ignored marketing commitment. They have none to speak of. They are charlatans, or quite close to be one. Being blind and deaf to the obvious requirements, and constantly ignoring them:
Using Canon camera to advertise their own Theta, while their Pentax cameras beg for some attention in marketing.
Using Canon setup to take Q7 shots.
Using Nikon D600 to make advertising for K-3.
Then using K-3 to tell how it is a great FF replacement (who needs FF when you have K-3,), and then use D600 as an example and how K-3 beats it!
Using stock photograph to promote a product they have no material about.
Steal other people's photographs for their branch website.

Lying. Cheating. Montaging. Hiding the truth. That is NOT marketing.
This is the confirmation of our fears and lamentations that go on for ages. Now, like a boomerang, sloppiness hits them back in the head.
It hurts? They have deserved it. Big time!

This is Ricoh Japan's direct fault. They have to deliver images for the marketing campaign of any kind for the products. Because they are designing the camera in the first place! One cannot design something if one does not know who is the market segment, or the audience for the new product. Or what problem a product solves and why it exists.
It just isn't a big deal. Pentax has clearly decided that the US is an after thought. If cameras sell here, that's fine, but their focus is Asia. This camera is targeted for Asia and the advertising campaigns are well designed.

If the K-S1 sells or doesn't sell in the US or Europe, it won't be because of a poorly photoshopped image.
10-28-2014, 07:50 AM   #703
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So you're saying it's slower focusing than it's competition, and noisier?

Did you try the Nikon D3300. I tried a D3200 once and found it neither faster focusing and definitely not quieter, but hey, things can change. This is the first time I've heard of a Pentax described as noisy.
My wording wasn't very clear and I see how you could read it that way. I'm not talking about the speed of focusing. I'm talking about the noise produced by both the screw drive AF motor with the kit lens and the shutter sound. I agree that the shutter sound on the K-5 and K-3 cameras is very quiet, but the shutter sound on the K-50 is completely different and the K-S1 is just as loud.

As for focusing speed, the autofocus on the K-S1 is like the K-50 in phase detect mode, so adequate against the competition I think. The contrast detect autofocus in live view mode is great. It's greatly improved over the K-50 and feels as quick as phase detect, on static subjects at least.

The reason I think noise is important for this level of camera is that a lot of targeted consumers probably don't know a lot about the technical aspects of the camera. They are likely to spend a few minutes handling very similar looking cameras (usually displayed with the kit lens) and make their decision based on things like weight, appearance, noise and of course brand awareness. My brother-in-law is a good example. He chose a D5100 over a K-30 and his main reason was he didn't like the loud noise the Pentax made. Pentax have done a good job of making the K-S1 cameras small, distinctive and improved their brand image (commercials and marketing in Japan). Noise is the main remaining pain point, in my opinion.
10-28-2014, 08:29 AM   #704
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
My wording wasn't very clear and I see how you could read it that way. I'm not talking about the speed of focusing. I'm talking about the noise produced by both the screw drive AF motor with the kit lens and the shutter sound. I agree that the shutter sound on the K-5 and K-3 cameras is very quiet, but the shutter sound on the K-50 is completely different and the K-S1 is just as loud.

As for focusing speed, the autofocus on the K-S1 is like the K-50 in phase detect mode, so adequate against the competition I think. The contrast detect autofocus in live view mode is great. It's greatly improved over the K-50 and feels as quick as phase detect, on static subjects at least.

The reason I think noise is important for this level of camera is that a lot of targeted consumers probably don't know a lot about the technical aspects of the camera. They are likely to spend a few minutes handling very similar looking cameras (usually displayed with the kit lens) and make their decision based on things like weight, appearance, noise and of course brand awareness. My brother-in-law is a good example. He chose a D5100 over a K-30 and his main reason was he didn't like the loud noise the Pentax made. Pentax have done a good job of making the K-S1 cameras small, distinctive and improved their brand image (commercials and marketing in Japan). Noise is the main remaining pain point, in my opinion.
I dunno about Canon kit lenses.
What I know is CAnon also have stupid cheap micro motors ( la SDM) but in the noisy fashion.

Just try a Canon 50/1.8, you'll get back to a Pentax screwdrive pretty quickly.
10-28-2014, 09:11 AM   #705
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It just isn't a big deal. Pentax has clearly decided that the US is an after thought. If cameras sell here, that's fine, but their focus is Asia. This camera is targeted for Asia and the advertising campaigns are well designed.
I don't believe they're quite that disinterested in the west. I just think at this time investing in the west isn't their #1 priority. Later, when they have a larger global market share, that may change.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If the K-S1 sells or doesn't sell in the US or Europe, it won't be because of a poorly photoshopped image.
I entirely agree with that, but it does indicate an embarrassing lack of attention. It's really unfortunate because I think Denver is making some strides building a reputation and brand image. Something like this (and a couple toher irritating issue) don't help.
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