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11-02-2014, 06:34 AM   #811
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QuoteOriginally posted by RuiC Quote
From patent descriptions I have read the SR systems that Pentax engineers develop are applicable to ILIS !!
I'm not sure but I think I have read already a lens patent with ILIS.
The 645 Macro lens ?

11-02-2014, 06:52 AM   #812
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The issue is the mass of the larger sensor, the carrying frame and the larger magnets required to move the entire assembly at hyper-frequency rates. As far as size goes - sure, there was a FF mirrorbox in an MX, but the entire technology of imaging resided on a moving strip of acetate. Everything about FF is larger, not just the sensor.

And there's more heat to dissipate.

A FF reflex Pentax camera will be larger than a K-3.
11-02-2014, 07:04 AM   #813
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Im going the same direction.. what i really care and like about FF is the ISO performance especially for events where light is too dim.. all the other things i can match them ( most ) with something like the K3 and some postprocesing and will be great. but ISO at APS-C have a limit...

Ofcourse for shooters that dont do it during the night/events or dont shoot at larger apertures they wont notice the difference between FF/APS-C .. and is not that APS-C is not going to do the job, its just that is not going to do it THAT good..
You do know there are some absolutely amazing K-3 low light photos taken at events posted on the forum, probably in the K-3 images thread? You might want to ask some of those guys how they achieve their results.
11-02-2014, 07:56 AM   #814
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We should wait a few months and compare K-3 performance versus whatever camera body is the Ricoh announcement for February and release for April/May.

11-02-2014, 08:01 AM   #815
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We should wait a few months and compare K-3 performance versus whatever camera body is the Ricoh announcement for February and release for April/May.
LOL... Sure I'd like too know more about that one
11-02-2014, 08:07 AM   #816
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Well, I'm always amazed at how tiny SMC-M (fast) glass is...
I mean, is there a smaller 50mm f/1.7 or a smaller 100mm f/2.8?
The fact that the 100mm is an old-ish 4-elements design surely helps...
Make that 5:



(Diagram from Boz Dimitrov)

---------- Post added 11-02-14 at 09:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
The 645 Macro lens ?
Certainly the new DA 645 28-45mm zoom has ILSR:

HD Pentax-DA 645 28-45mm F4.5 ED AW SR Reviews - 645 Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

(note the "SR" in the name).
11-02-2014, 08:38 AM - 1 Like   #817
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Make that 5:



(Diagram from Boz Dimitrov)

True, 100mm f/4 macro is also the same... must have confused it with a 50mm...
There's also this interesting test online
TEST
with lots of scans from old magazines and charts for both the f/2.8 and the f/4 (and the bellows).
11-02-2014, 08:56 AM   #818
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Well, I'm always amazed at how tiny SMC-M (fast) glass is...
I mean, is there a smaller 50mm f/1.7 or a smaller 100mm f/2.8?
The fact that the 100mm is an old-ish 4-elements design surely helps...
BTW, anyone knows transmittance figures for old manual glass compared to newer, multi-element glass? Would be intrigued to know the t-stop...
Several reasons for me:

- In body AF motor have less strength than a typical hand and so design had to be changed to accomodate auto focus.
- In lens AF motor add a motor into the lens making it even bigger.
- Stabilization also add other stuff into the lens.
- We didn't care that much of perfect sharpness of whatever because we could not pixel peep images. Now if it not razor sharp on extremes borders at f/1.2 it is said to be "unusable".

11-02-2014, 09:07 AM   #819
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Several reasons for me:

- In body AF motor have less strength than a typical hand and so design had to be changed to accomodate auto focus.
- In lens AF motor add a motor into the lens making it even bigger.
- Stabilization also add other stuff into the lens.
- We didn't care that much of perfect sharpness of whatever because we could not pixel peep images. Now if it not razor sharp on extremes borders at f/1.2 it is said to be "unusable".
I'm with you for all the points except the last one.
I believe that some of my manual lenses are among the sharpest I have, and they usually get there earlier (around f/5.6, before diffraction sets in on a 16MP APS-C sensor)
You can pixel peep as much as you like with those... ;-)
11-02-2014, 09:43 AM   #820
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The challenge of making IBIS work on a small FF sensored body would explain the delay in releasing a FF.
IBIS is one of the main draws to Pentax for many of us. I bet Ricoh/Pentax is working on something really novel which will allow them to have both small bodies and IBIS with their K mount FF. I tell my kids that I am the most optimistic old man they will ever meet
11-02-2014, 09:58 AM   #821
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
We didn't care that much of perfect sharpness of whatever because we could not pixel peep images.
Oh, we cared, back in the day, because we could always crank the enlarger up to the top of the post!
11-02-2014, 10:29 AM   #822
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Oh, we cared, back in the day, because we could always crank the enlarger up to the top of the post!
...brings back memories of developing B/W in the darkroom (the bathroom!) and of Antonioni's movie "Blow up"... a masterpiece which I warmly suggest if you haven't seen it yet.
11-02-2014, 10:50 AM   #823
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Some old lenses are just as sharp as new ones, just as some new lenses are not sharp at all. It all depends on the quality of the optics. There are several MF gems that are just fine sharpness wise (especially stopped down) even on a modern high MP digital sensor. Look at the K glass on the A7. In fact one lesser advantage touted of MF is that with equal MP count, because you are enlarging less the image and have larger photosites, you have less CA and older lenses are better balanced sharpness wise with the sensor.
11-02-2014, 11:13 AM   #824
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
...brings back memories of developing B/W in the darkroom (the bathroom!) and of Antonioni's movie "Blow up"... a masterpiece which I warmly suggest if you haven't seen it yet.
I have seen it. Masterpiece indeed
But darkroom isn't old memories for me (fortunately). Still love it.
11-02-2014, 06:34 PM   #825
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
IBIS requires a larger image circle as well as large amounts of movement of the sensor. The larger the sensor the larger the movement. This means the optical stabilization of a FF may be stop or more worse than a stabilization of a smaller sensor. The sony A99 is the only FF IBIS that was created, i wonder how sony solved those issues (maybe SLT gives some sort of advantage?)
Sorry, but no. Years before SLT technology had even been invented, Sony had released the a900 and a850, both of which are image stabilized.
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