Three new lenses at once

**ak_kiwi** · 09-20-2014, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by JimmyDranox

Yes - its all good and clever thinking by Ricoh as it gives them some more options.

Originally posted by mee

I wonder, though, if this means these two lenses will be released beforehand? That is to say, perhaps we will see these released around CP+ time on the FF prototype body and then, later in the year when the body is released, will see other lenses coming along side it? The tele lenses would work great on APS-C bodies too with the extra crop factor.

Yes - I think they will but maybe or maybe not with a FF body (proto or otherwise). The reason I say this is because if Ricoh produce lenses that are missing from the line up that have attractive features (AW/WR, fast focusing, large aperature), then people will buy them. If those same lenses happen to be FF it could also attract customers looking for conformation that a FF is on the way to production.

If Ricoh decide that it is not in their best interests to release a FF then they still have lenses that have a market with APS-C customers. (And two of those lenses describe I would definitely buy)

philbaum · 09-20-2014, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by zapp

Thinking negative, Pentax is too slow, has not enough capacity or does not care about new lenses that are missing in the lineup.

One of the graphics i saw recently showed DSLR sales decreasing about 10% a year till 2017. Excess production capacity can be a horrible drain on company resources in slack times like the current environment.

What you want is slightly less productive capacity than you need, and then work the OT to fill the slack. Companies like Canon and Nikon are probably having to cut back a lot on excess capacity - a very unpleasant situation to be in. I think in this environment, a slow to manufacture company (which indicates less capacity) is in a much better position for present economic environment. So there are some pluses in being a smaller company.

**jpzk** · 09-20-2014, 02:13 PM

I haven't read much of the "predictions", so what are those three new lenses which WILL show ?

robjmitchell · 09-20-2014, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

I haven't read much of the "predictions", so what are those three new lenses which WILL show ?

The three lenses in the display case were:-
New Kit APS-c Upgrade lens 16-85 f3.5-5.6 WR, looks like it is finished and scheduled for production. due end of year, start of next. Cost ? my guess $600-800, but discounted with camera kit.
New ~70-200 f2.8? Star quality lens Likely FF compatible pre production. Expect end Q1 2015 earliest Cost ? my guess $1700-2200
New ~135-400 f? likely similar quality spec to cannon 100-400 f4-5.6L although we don't know. expected as above, Cost ? my guess $2000-2500
All three are on the roadmap.
Only thing left on roadmap is Aps-C Ultrawide zoom, presumably WR.

mee · 09-20-2014, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by robjmitchell

The three lenses in the display case were:-
New Kit APS-c Upgrade lens 16-85 f3.5-5.6 WR, looks like it is finished and scheduled for production. due end of year, start of next. Cost ? my guess $600-800, but discounted with camera kit.

Where did you discover the 16-85 is a kit lens?

**barondla** · 09-20-2014, 05:20 PM

The best is yet to come.
thanks
barondla

Check out point and shoot contest #81 in the compact camera forum. Enter #82. Any brand camera allowed.

Tesla · 09-20-2014, 06:47 PM - **1 Like**

I like this positive thread.. we need more of these!

robjmitchell · 09-20-2014, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by mee

Where did you discover the 16-85 is a kit lens?

Kit lens means that you can get it discounted when purchased with a camera body. I't doesn't mean low quality. In australia the only standard pentax zoom not available as part of a "kit" at some point is the DA* 16-50/2.8
Build wise it is in the same class as 18-135, DC motor probably, WR, no distance scale. Basically an extended range consumer level zoom with 16mm on the wide end the main selling point, hopefully with IQ in the DA55-300 level or better.

yusuf · 09-20-2014, 08:55 PM

Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there.

robjmitchell · 09-20-2014, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by yusuf

Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there.

Because they are already established in the Medium format market, have the lenses, and they can share their K-mount technology to out compete the other players in a high profit margin business! Sony has essentially figured out how to glue sensors together, So the high cost of large sensors due to silicon defects is no longer.
Perfect market for pentax, but it is to small for the big SLR producers to target as the R&D to develop a lens system from scratch is not worth it.

philbaum · 09-20-2014, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by yusuf

Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there.

Because:
A. They already have most of the engineering and design done with the 645D. So low cost to insert an upgraded sensor. Nikon, Canon,Sony can't say the same thing

B. Because they already have some of the needed 645 lenses available, and more are in the works.

C. Because Pentax is an accepted player in the medium format niche, since flim days.

D. Because they can underprice the other players in the medium format arena. Reports say they are 1/3 to 1/4 the retail price of the other players

E. Reportedly, the first year's slated production has already been sold.

cfraz · 09-20-2014, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by yusuf

Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there.

In addition to the other responses, precisely because Nikon/Canon/Sony are not in that market. Pentax can compete at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of existing MF systems. That would not be the case if it was a high volume market with players like Nikon/Canon/Sony.

**luftfluss** · 09-20-2014, 09:51 PM - **1 Like**

And in addition to what the previous 3 posters have stated, the 645Z functions wonderfully as a halo product, hopefully generating interest in Pentax from the top down.

Only foolish people would refer to Pentax's presence in the MF market as "foolish".

yusuf · 09-20-2014, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Because:
A. They already have most of the engineering and design done with the 645D. So low cost to insert an upgraded sensor. Nikon, Canon,Sony can't say the same thing

B. Because they already have some of the needed 645 lenses available, and more are in the works.

C. Because Pentax is an accepted player in the medium format niche, since flim days.

D. Because they can underprice the other players in the medium format arena. Reports say they are 1/3 to 1/4 the retail price of the other players

E. Reportedly, the first year's slated production has already been sold.

At the expense of ignoring larger market, Pentax is bringing new lenses, new cameras for MF, the samee effort and R&D money invested in FF & mirrorless will have better ROI. The number of serious photographers using 645 is far less than number of serious photographers who will prefer FF.

mee · 09-20-2014, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by robjmitchell

Kit lens means that you can get it discounted when purchased with a camera body. I't doesn't mean low quality. In australia the only standard pentax zoom not available as part of a "kit" at some point is the DA* 16-50/2.8
Build wise it is in the same class as 18-135, DC motor probably, WR, no distance scale. Basically an extended range consumer level zoom with 16mm on the wide end the main selling point, hopefully with IQ in the DA55-300 level or better.

I think in the interview, the Pentax/Ricoh reps mentioned this new lens was meant as an upgrade FROM the traditional 18-55 kit lens.. so I'm thinking it is not a kit lens.

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09-20-2014, 01:14 PM	#16
ak_kiwi Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Auckland, New Zealand. Posts: 328	Originally posted by JimmyDranox Three new lenses at once Yes - its all good and clever thinking by Ricoh as it gives them some more options. Originally posted by mee I wonder, though, if this means these two lenses will be released beforehand? That is to say, perhaps we will see these released around CP+ time on the FF prototype body and then, later in the year when the body is released, will see other lenses coming along side it? The tele lenses would work great on APS-C bodies too with the extra crop factor. Yes - I think they will but maybe or maybe not with a FF body (proto or otherwise). The reason I say this is because if Ricoh produce lenses that are missing from the line up that have attractive features (AW/WR, fast focusing, large aperature), then people will buy them. If those same lenses happen to be FF it could also attract customers looking for conformation that a FF is on the way to production. If Ricoh decide that it is not in their best interests to release a FF then they still have lenses that have a market with APS-C customers. (And two of those lenses describe I would definitely buy)

09-20-2014, 02:10 PM	#17
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by zapp Thinking negative, Pentax is too slow, has not enough capacity or does not care about new lenses that are missing in the lineup. One of the graphics i saw recently showed DSLR sales decreasing about 10% a year till 2017. Excess production capacity can be a horrible drain on company resources in slack times like the current environment. What you want is slightly less productive capacity than you need, and then work the OT to fill the slack. Companies like Canon and Nikon are probably having to cut back a lot on excess capacity - a very unpleasant situation to be in. I think in this environment, a slow to manufacture company (which indicates less capacity) is in a much better position for present economic environment. So there are some pluses in being a smaller company.

09-20-2014, 02:13 PM	#18
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	I haven't read much of the "predictions", so what are those three new lenses which WILL show ?

09-20-2014, 03:30 PM	#19
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by jpzk I haven't read much of the "predictions", so what are those three new lenses which WILL show ? The three lenses in the display case were:- New Kit APS-c Upgrade lens 16-85 f3.5-5.6 WR, looks like it is finished and scheduled for production. due end of year, start of next. Cost ? my guess $600-800, but discounted with camera kit. New ~70-200 f2.8? Star quality lens Likely FF compatible pre production. Expect end Q1 2015 earliest Cost ? my guess $1700-2200 New ~135-400 f? likely similar quality spec to cannon 100-400 f4-5.6L although we don't know. expected as above, Cost ? my guess $2000-2500 All three are on the roadmap. Only thing left on roadmap is Aps-C Ultrawide zoom, presumably WR.

09-20-2014, 04:09 PM	#20
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by robjmitchell The three lenses in the display case were:- New Kit APS-c Upgrade lens 16-85 f3.5-5.6 WR, looks like it is finished and scheduled for production. due end of year, start of next. Cost ? my guess $600-800, but discounted with camera kit. Where did you discover the 16-85 is a kit lens?

09-20-2014, 05:20 PM	#21
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	The best is yet to come. thanks barondla Check out point and shoot contest #81 in the compact camera forum. Enter #82. Any brand camera allowed.

09-20-2014, 06:47 PM - 1 Like	#22
Tesla Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 589	I like this positive thread.. we need more of these!

09-20-2014, 08:21 PM	#23
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by mee Where did you discover the 16-85 is a kit lens? Kit lens means that you can get it discounted when purchased with a camera body. I't doesn't mean low quality. In australia the only standard pentax zoom not available as part of a "kit" at some point is the DA* 16-50/2.8 Build wise it is in the same class as 18-135, DC motor probably, WR, no distance scale. Basically an extended range consumer level zoom with 16mm on the wide end the main selling point, hopefully with IQ in the DA55-300 level or better.

09-20-2014, 08:55 PM	#24
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there.

09-20-2014, 09:08 PM	#25
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by yusuf Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there. Because they are already established in the Medium format market, have the lenses, and they can share their K-mount technology to out compete the other players in a high profit margin business! Sony has essentially figured out how to glue sensors together, So the high cost of large sensors due to silicon defects is no longer. Perfect market for pentax, but it is to small for the big SLR producers to target as the R&D to develop a lens system from scratch is not worth it.

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09-20-2014, 09:24 PM	#26
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by yusuf Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there. Because: A. They already have most of the engineering and design done with the 645D. So low cost to insert an upgraded sensor. Nikon, Canon,Sony can't say the same thing B. Because they already have some of the needed 645 lenses available, and more are in the works. C. Because Pentax is an accepted player in the medium format niche, since flim days. D. Because they can underprice the other players in the medium format arena. Reports say they are 1/3 to 1/4 the retail price of the other players E. Reportedly, the first year's slated production has already been sold.

09-20-2014, 09:40 PM	#27
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by yusuf Anyone knows why Pentax foolishly chasing 645 market while Nikon/Canon/Sony wouldn't even glance at 645. It's a paper thin market and already a few players out there. In addition to the other responses, precisely because Nikon/Canon/Sony are not in that market. Pentax can compete at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of existing MF systems. That would not be the case if it was a high volume market with players like Nikon/Canon/Sony.

09-20-2014, 09:51 PM - 1 Like	#28
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	And in addition to what the previous 3 posters have stated, the 645Z functions wonderfully as a halo product, hopefully generating interest in Pentax from the top down. Only foolish people would refer to Pentax's presence in the MF market as "foolish".

09-20-2014, 10:13 PM	#29
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Originally posted by philbaum Because: A. They already have most of the engineering and design done with the 645D. So low cost to insert an upgraded sensor. Nikon, Canon,Sony can't say the same thing B. Because they already have some of the needed 645 lenses available, and more are in the works. C. Because Pentax is an accepted player in the medium format niche, since flim days. D. Because they can underprice the other players in the medium format arena. Reports say they are 1/3 to 1/4 the retail price of the other players E. Reportedly, the first year's slated production has already been sold. At the expense of ignoring larger market, Pentax is bringing new lenses, new cameras for MF, the samee effort and R&D money invested in FF & mirrorless will have better ROI. The number of serious photographers using 645 is far less than number of serious photographers who will prefer FF.

09-20-2014, 11:01 PM	#30
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by robjmitchell Kit lens means that you can get it discounted when purchased with a camera body. I't doesn't mean low quality. In australia the only standard pentax zoom not available as part of a "kit" at some point is the DA* 16-50/2.8 Build wise it is in the same class as 18-135, DC motor probably, WR, no distance scale. Basically an extended range consumer level zoom with 16mm on the wide end the main selling point, hopefully with IQ in the DA55-300 level or better. I think in the interview, the Pentax/Ricoh reps mentioned this new lens was meant as an upgrade FROM the traditional 18-55 kit lens.. so I'm thinking it is not a kit lens.