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09-23-2014, 06:45 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
(Unstabilised) Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM II: $2,998. B&H price.
Yea, but Sony drank some really interesting Kool-aid and are out to lunch.

09-23-2014, 07:07 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Huh...
I think i will keep my good old and cheap (USD 450) Tokina ATX Pro 80-200/2.8
That's part of the equation Ricoh have to solve:

- Pentax DSLR clients have been demanding a 24x36 Pentax DSLR for years
- These people often possess a bunch of old glass they intend to use on said DSLR
- A camera and lens manufacturer makes money on lenses and accessories, much less so on bodies (you have to lower the sale price of the bodies to the max. to enlarge your client base and sell them more lenses and accessories, which in turn make them captive of the brand).

Pentax R&D department's answer was the so-called Ace (mount) project: mirrorless camera, new mount, retro-compatibility but big stimulus to buy new lenses. This project has been, if not totally ditched, at least put on the back-burner with the gas turned off.

Ricoh's answer seems to have been to wait for high pixel density 24x36 sensors (36+ Mpix) to become affordable enough to kill two birds with one stone: launch a high-specs camera at a (relatively) affordable price to make Pentax users happy + make sure said camera has such a high pixel count that Pentaxians will be disappointed with how their old glass behaves on it and will buy new lenses.

I am joking.
Barely.

Actually, not at all.
09-23-2014, 08:30 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
It will be cheaper than Nikon or Canon versions if IS is in camera. It would only be logical. they could gain tens of customers with the premise of inbody stabalized 35mm format DSLR. Every lens stabalized, save money on future lenses by not having to spend money on IS versions. Thats my theory. Thats why I think more int he $1800 range. Max $2000. You can't ask $2400 for a lens that has technically less features than the competition from a brand thats not as well known.
Logically, I agree. But so far Ricoh lens prices have been top of the chart, not priced below competition. Look at 20-40 for example, maybe a poor example as it is rather unique and a "limited" but $799 would have been the right price. And they have lower volume to spread overhead and startup costs over, so if they are pricing without regard to competition and only on cost plus margin then it will be at least as expensive as the others.

I guess we will see in 6 months or so, but I'm going to bet $2,499.
09-23-2014, 08:43 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
It will be cheaper than Nikon or Canon versions if IS is in camera. It would only be logical. they could gain tens of customers with the premise of inbody stabalized 35mm format DSLR. Every lens stabalized, save money on future lenses by not having to spend money on IS versions. Thats my theory. Thats why I think more int he $1800 range. Max $2000. You can't ask $2400 for a lens that has technically less features than the competition from a brand thats not as well known.
Well Pentax surely priced the 50-135 without using any of your logic (unfortunately).

09-23-2014, 09:38 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Well Pentax surely priced the 50-135 without using any of your logic (unfortunately).
$1200 for that lens was a steal (thats what I paid in 2011).
09-23-2014, 09:44 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
$1200 for that lens was a steal (that's what I paid in 2011).
I paid €550 for a brand new DA* 50-135mm in 2009 .
09-23-2014, 09:53 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I agree. The only way Pentax can make a go of it is to do what Ricoh Hoya is was known for: compete on price.
In your not humble opinion. Fixed it, too.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Ricoh's answer seems to have been to wait for high pixel density 24x36 sensors (36+ Mpix) to become affordable enough to kill two birds with one stone: launch a high-specs camera at a (relatively) affordable price to make Pentax users happy + make sure said camera has such a high pixel count that Pentaxians will be disappointed with how their old glass behaves on it and will buy new lenses.
Which will be EXPENSIVE!

QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Actually, not at all.
i think you actually nailed the entire pricing strategy. I would be very thoughtful about which legacy lenses you keep and which you sell over the next several months.
09-23-2014, 10:23 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I paid 550 for a brand new DA* 50-135mm in 2009 .
About the same. Now, I love this gem but...
I still consider selling it.

09-23-2014, 10:36 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I paid 550 for a brand new DA* 50-135mm in 2009 .
Not bad, got mine new 299 last spring.
09-23-2014, 08:12 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
I know there are plenty here who were disappointed in Pentax at Photokina. Samsung released a DSLR with better specs all around. Nikon released a new full frame. There was plenty offered from other makers there, but what was new for Pentax? One new lens that wasn't all that fast? They couldn't even do it as a constant aperture of 4 and it was bigger than the 18-135? What does this mean for Pentax?
When I first heard about the Nikon D750, I was like wow, Nikon keeps releasing full frame cameras, where's Pentax ? But I think Nikon did this because of the D600 and D610. My feeling is that the D600 and D610 will be discontinued (there still is new stock of the D600). The D750 is supposed to put the D600 series behind them, because there's just too much negativity out there about the D600.

But the reality is that the D600, D610 and D750 are all 24 mega pixel consumer cameras. The D750 is just a slight upgrade over the D610 - Nikon is getting rid of the D600 series !
Nikon D750 vs D610

There's just too much stigma over the D600 series, Nikon HAS to eliminate the series and replace it and start fresh.

(Edit: Actually, if Pentax were to release a 35mm DSLR next year at the price point of the D600/610/750 and Canon 6D, there might be some stiff competition as Nikon discounts its defective camera. I mean, talk about market saturation of 4 entry level 35mm DSLR's. Perhaps industry insiders at Pentax could see this coming from Nikon. The only problem is will buyers inform themselves and search online about the defective D600, because sales people certainly won't inform them.)

Last edited by zoolander; 09-23-2014 at 08:30 PM.
09-23-2014, 09:11 PM   #71
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I don't think that there are many people this days which will throw away 2500$, and even less than 2000, without informing well about the camera they intend to buy. And a newcomer, who didn't know anything about cameras, will not jump directly to such a big expense. Most of them will ask friends, relatives, or will browse reviews. So, IMO, D600 is not a real competitor on the market anymore, regardless of price.

On the other hand, Pentax has his own market to fill first. And even it's not as big as Canikon, still, only 10% of Pentax own market means more than 2 maybe 300 000 potential costumers who want an FF camera. For comparison, 645z is selling on a rate of 4000 per month.
09-24-2014, 08:12 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
When I first heard about the Nikon D750, I was like wow, Nikon keeps releasing full frame cameras, where's Pentax ? But I think Nikon did this because of the D600 and D610. My feeling is that the D600 and D610 will be discontinued (there still is new stock of the D600). The D750 is supposed to put the D600 series behind them, because there's just too much negativity out there about the D600.

But the reality is that the D600, D610 and D750 are all 24 mega pixel consumer cameras. The D750 is just a slight upgrade over the D610 - Nikon is getting rid of the D600 series !
Nikon D750 vs D610

There's just too much stigma over the D600 series, Nikon HAS to eliminate the series and replace it and start fresh.

(Edit: Actually, if Pentax were to release a 35mm DSLR next year at the price point of the D600/610/750 and Canon 6D, there might be some stiff competition as Nikon discounts its defective camera. I mean, talk about market saturation of 4 entry level 35mm DSLR's. Perhaps industry insiders at Pentax could see this coming from Nikon. The only problem is will buyers inform themselves and search online about the defective D600, because sales people certainly won't inform them.)
This is why I don't think Pentax will release a 36mp camera and try and compete with in the price point of the Canon 5D mk3 (mk4 by then) and D810 (and potentially it's followup). I think a much more realistic approach is to do what Pentax has always done, build a better prosumer camera that is more pro than the competition (K3 vs D7100 for example) in the price point/base feature set.

This is why I think if you look at the D750 you may find something similar to what Pentax will do with their 35mm camera. I do believe we will see a $2300-2500 price point camera. I do believe it will feature a 24mp sensor. I do believe we will see the next evolutionary step in the K3's AF system. It is obvious we will have the multi-pattern light meetering, and if we have in body SR we will have the AA filter simulation. I don't think flash sync will get much better if at all. I'm unsure if we will get a flip screen. We will get 1/8000' shutter speed. We will get 5 frame bracketing. We will get flu-card wifi at minimum if not an integrated solution. It will be compatible with the GPS unit. There will be a grip. And I'm hoping for 7fps burst mode.

In my opinion we are currently seeing a 4 tiers of 35mm format.

Teir 1 - entry level
Nikon D610
Canon 6D

Teir 2 -prosumer level
Nikon D750
Sony A7 (and variants)

Teir 3 - professional level
Nikon D810
Canon 5D Mk3

Teir 4 - flagship professional level
Nikon D4s
Canon 1Dx

So where is Pentax going to place it's camera?

My guess is teir 2, but with a build quality and feature set of teir 3. I think they will do what Sony does with the A7, kind of blur the line between affordable FF with professional features and build quality.
09-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
... I don't think flash sync will get much better if at all. I'm unsure if we will get a flip screen. We will get 1/8000' shutter speed. We will get 5 frame bracketing. We will get flu-card wifi at minimum if not an integrated solution. It will be compatible with the GPS unit. There will be a grip. And I'm hoping for 7fps burst mode.
Flash-synch was 1/250s on PZ 1 models, why would they forget about it ?
09-24-2014, 11:57 AM   #74
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My Crazy Prediction for FF PTX K Mount

QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
This is why I don't think Pentax will release a 36mp camera and try and compete with in the price point of the Canon 5D mk3 (mk4 by then) and D810 (and potentially it's followup). I think a much more realistic approach is to do what Pentax has always done, build a better prosumer camera that is more pro than the competition (K3 vs D7100 for example) in the price point/base feature set.

This is why I think if you look at the D750 you may find something similar to what Pentax will do with their 35mm camera. I do believe we will see a $2300-2500 price point camera. I do believe it will feature a 24mp sensor. I do believe we will see the next evolutionary step in the K3's AF system. It is obvious we will have the multi-pattern light meetering, and if we have in body SR we will have the AA filter simulation. I don't think flash sync will get much better if at all. I'm unsure if we will get a flip screen. We will get 1/8000' shutter speed. We will get 5 frame bracketing. We will get flu-card wifi at minimum if not an integrated solution. It will be compatible with the GPS unit. There will be a grip. And I'm hoping for 7fps burst mode.

In my opinion we are currently seeing a 4 tiers of 35mm format.

Teir 1 - entry level
Nikon D610
Canon 6D

Teir 2 -prosumer level
Nikon D750
Sony A7 (and variants)

Teir 3 - professional level
Nikon D810
Canon 5D Mk3

Teir 4 - flagship professional level
Nikon D4s
Canon 1Dx

So where is Pentax going to place it's camera?

My guess is teir 2, but with a build quality and feature set of teir 3. I think they will do what Sony does with the A7, kind of blur the line between affordable FF with professional features and build quality.

Greater than 36mp, size of the MZD (updated LCD screens, better AF, all the last 10 years of goodies), Price point less than D810, etc....

OR....

A smaller lighter format like 645z (to differentiate from the "masses"... In no case less than 36mp, maybe 40 or so...

OR....

A K mount (distance adjusted for lens registration) Pentaxized A7R competitor...

The last two choices could be significantly cheaper than a whole new DSLR redesign... and might be cheaper than the 810

Thank goodness I don't need one....
09-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Flash-synch was 1/250s on PZ 1 models, why would they forget about it ?
Because 1/180 has been the Pentax standard as far back as I can remember on DSLR?

I would LOVE for 1/250.

I need to compete with the sun....
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