Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-04-2014, 12:09 PM   #106
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,857
QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
if they go with FF Mirrorless, they can do what Sony has: offer a new mount with an adapter for legacy lenses. Problem solved.

M
This will typically decrease the value of legacy lens. It is more conveniant to use a native smaller lens optimized for the system than one with an adapter ! If also they remove the body motor, many screw drive lenses might loose AF entirely.

10-04-2014, 12:11 PM   #107
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,722
QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
if they go with FF Mirrorless, they can do what Sony has: offer a new mount with an adapter for legacy lenses. Problem solved.

M
They already have a mirrorless camera line with a different mount and an adapter for legacy lenses. Problem already solved.
10-04-2014, 12:32 PM   #108
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 418
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They already have a mirrorless camera line with a different mount and an adapter for legacy lenses. Problem already solved.
lol.. but not FF
10-04-2014, 12:35 PM   #109
Veteran Member
MJSfoto1956's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,290
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
This will typically decrease the value of legacy lens.
I was responding to how they keep the profits up if a "sea of old FF lenses" concerns them. FF mirrorless solves the problem and allows legacy lenses to continue to work with the new system. AND they can develop newer, lighter, sharper lenses specifically for the new mount. And the new mount wouldn't really compete with their well-developed crop-sensor series. Likely a win-win for them (as long as such an adapter would allow full AF features -- i.e. it would need a screw drive).

M

10-04-2014, 12:39 PM   #110
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,722
The R&D cost of a new MILC mount is prohibitive.

The price alone of new FF lenses will be sufficient to limit sales to the point that legacy lenses won't matter.
10-04-2014, 03:09 PM   #111
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,123
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
That's a profit killer for any camera brand.
I'm not here for Ricoh's bank account.
10-04-2014, 03:22 PM   #112
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,722
QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
I was responding to how they keep the profits up if a "sea of old FF lenses" concerns them. FF mirrorless solves the problem and allows legacy lenses to continue to work with the new system. AND they can develop newer, lighter, sharper lenses specifically for the new mount. And the new mount wouldn't really compete with their well-developed crop-sensor series. Likely a win-win for them (as long as such an adapter would allow full AF features -- i.e. it would need a screw drive).

M
None of those is a benefit in Ricoh's brand philosophy. Ricoh is committed to K-mount, Q and 645. It is a firm commitment. There won't be a new mount any time soon.
10-04-2014, 04:46 PM   #113
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,814
A FF mirrorless is not such a walk in a park, and IMHO it would make things more difficult - there would be no support from an existing user base, because there would be none. It's easiest to sell to your existing customers, and hardest to steal the competition's...
And let's not forget that APS-C users are also buying FF lenses. I think this should compensate for the imaginary "legacy lens problem" several times over

10-04-2014, 08:55 PM - 2 Likes   #114
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,355
I work for a cinema camera rental company in Los Angeles. In addition to renting existing equipment, we have an in-house engineering team. The company has developed several products that have made significant waves in the industry, and we have a constant stream of new customers who would never have heard of our company, if not for the new products we offer.

This idea that R&D is prohibitively expensive is arrogant and uninformed. Unless one has intimate knowledge of Ricoh's R&D budget and existing catalog of R&D work, one can't possibly know what is "prohibitively" expensive and what is not. Who's to say such work hasn't been in progress for years? Who's to say Ricoh is incapable of looking at the published patents by other companies, or the more than a century's worth of optical scientific literature?

The myriad of camera companies that have sprung up in the last few years, especially the very small ones, should show us that it is possible for a company to make a product, and that, if the product fills a need or is of sufficient perceived quality, it can attract customers.

Right now, Sigma's lens designs are garnering more prestige then Pentax's. SIGMA. That should tell us all we need to know. If Sigma can come up with lenses that are some of the crown jewels of the photographic world, I believe Ricoh can, too. If they don't want to, that is up to them. But I don't think any of us has any reason to think they are not capable.

Unless some of us have information that the rest of us do not.
10-05-2014, 12:36 AM   #115
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,559
QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Right now, Sigma's lens designs are garnering more prestige then Pentax's. SIGMA. That should tell us all we need to know. If Sigma can come up with lenses that are some of the crown jewels of the photographic world, I believe Ricoh can, too. If they don't want to, that is up to them. But I don't think any of us has any reason to think they are not capable.
Aaah.. no, I don't think so (but that's just me)
10-05-2014, 12:38 AM   #116
Veteran Member




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Photos: Albums
Posts: 804
My experience in working in R&D is that good management yeald to better results than spending tons of money. Engineers are not traders, they need to be motivated and are generally impassioned people.
10-05-2014, 01:18 AM   #117
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,355
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Aaah.. no, I don't think so (but that's just me)
you don't think what? the fact is that the sigma art lenses are getting rave reviews, and the 18-35 is one of the landmark lenses of the past decade. it has won awards. can you name the last time Pentax released a lens as highly regarded as the sigma art 50 or the 18-35? I certainly cannot. I'm pretty sure it wasnt the Limited zoom.
10-05-2014, 01:39 AM   #118
Pentaxian
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 3,244
DA20-40 Ltd : it wasn't , by mistake and unique thinking of the so called "testers"


A few modest examples of picts i took with it :
https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=DA20-40mm&user_id=10321525%40N07&sort=date-posted-desc


But this has nothing to do with this thread
10-05-2014, 04:38 AM   #119
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,857
QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
My experience in working in R&D is that good management yeald to better results than spending tons of money. Engineers are not traders, they need to be motivated and are generally impassioned people.
Good engineers are passionnated (I'am passionnated but one could say I'am no good). But even if your are passionnated, I agree that you need management at help. Time spent in stupid process, never doing anything innovative is killer engineer. You need your engineers to enjoy their job.

---------- Post added 10-05-14 at 01:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I work for a cinema camera rental company in Los Angeles. In addition to renting existing equipment, we have an in-house engineering team. The company has developed several products that have made significant waves in the industry, and we have a constant stream of new customers who would never have heard of our company, if not for the new products we offer.

This idea that R&D is prohibitively expensive is arrogant and uninformed. Unless one has intimate knowledge of Ricoh's R&D budget and existing catalog of R&D work, one can't possibly know what is "prohibitively" expensive and what is not. Who's to say such work hasn't been in progress for years? Who's to say Ricoh is incapable of looking at the published patents by other companies, or the more than a century's worth of optical scientific literature?

The myriad of camera companies that have sprung up in the last few years, especially the very small ones, should show us that it is possible for a company to make a product, and that, if the product fills a need or is of sufficient perceived quality, it can attract customers.

Right now, Sigma's lens designs are garnering more prestige then Pentax's. SIGMA. That should tell us all we need to know. If Sigma can come up with lenses that are some of the crown jewels of the photographic world, I believe Ricoh can, too. If they don't want to, that is up to them. But I don't think any of us has any reason to think they are not capable.

Unless some of us have information that the rest of us do not.
I agree with you that the photographic industry is a small industry with small investments where it is easy to start. Almost nothing prevent you to be the next Sigma and Samyang is already doing well with just manual and heavy lenses ! Bodies are also very easy to design, for the most part it is puzzle with a few parts. All the hardware is standard hardware except maybe pentaprism & mirror and sensor, and this you can outsource. What is more difficult then is to get the network effect of your own mount.

This cannot compare to the R&D Intel put into a new processor or AIrbus put in a new plane.
10-05-2014, 05:52 AM   #120
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,722
The engineering roadblock today is the automated factory. Engineers can design products all day long, especially for comparatively small volume, professional applications like cinema. Designing products that you can make in the hundreds of thousands, or millions, without much human intervention (people are just too expensive to use making high-volume products) is a real challenge. Then, to make the capital investment pay for itself, you have to run the plant flat-out 24/7. When sales slow down, what happens then? Nikon and Canon is the answer.

Robots don't go on strike, get sick, get divorced, steal or anything else bad that people do. But you can't lay a robot off - you still have to pay for the machines whether they're running or not.

Sigma can do what it does because it makes lenses for every mount and only lenses (oh, yeah, they make a really hot-selling camera brand, I hear) - and they reverse engineer a lot of their engineering. They don't have to drop everything and start making a camera body, and a flash and a grip, and then a silver one and new lenses, and rework old lenses.

If it is so easy then either Ricoh is just an awful company and we should change brands or management is just using this as a Sunday hobby, not committed - and we should change brands.

I continue to wonder why people argue about how much better / smarter / faster everyone else is. Why are you tied to Pentax? Go buy what is better - it's OK - you should be happy.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-05-2014 at 06:55 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
angle, camera, canon, consider, cost, d-fa, fan, ff, half, hardware, investment, k-mount, lenses, mf, originals, pentax, pentax lens, pentax news, pentax rumors, performer, price, quality, replacements, ricoh, sigma, slr lens, system
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Pentax leaf shutter 645 medium format lenses coming soon i83N Pentax News and Rumors 73 10-03-2014 08:03 AM
~$200 Portrait Lens - New Baby Coming Soon pdxfive Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 24 08-31-2013 06:21 PM
New Rumor or FF is coming? yasik Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 12-20-2012 05:00 AM
36 MP Sony FF coming soon too! Jasvox Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 11 10-19-2011 08:02 PM
How Rumours Are Born: New 21.1MP FF coming soon? Nubi Pentax News and Rumors 72 06-12-2010 07:38 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:28 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top