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10-17-2014, 10:59 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Sony, Nikon, and Canon are bleeding money and they still spend hundreds of thousands on trade shows, for appearances sake. You know what Ricoh is doing? They're managing to make Pentax profitable while the industry is tanking by making smart decisions like forgoing Photo Plus. Credit to them for a smart, steady growth strategy. They're not perfect, but they deserve credit for rescuing Pentax and making it healthier than it's been in decades.

And Pentax is in good company. You know who else isn't at PhotoPlus? Just the two hottest brands in photography at the moment, Apple and GoPro. Neither of them do trade shows at all AFAIK, Apple big enough host their own events, heavy on media/blogger coverage and with no competition, and GoPro along with Red Bull as the poster children of a new kind of marketing. Forget television. Forget trade shows. That's so 20th century.
Sony has been bleeding money because of their other businesses (TVs, phone, computers). Sony's E-mount series has been doing very well. Nikon is making money. Nikon's profits are down because of the P&S market. The higher end market has been a strength, and that is typically the people who go to these shows. Nikon isn't bleeding money. Profits are down, not negative.

Ricoh is not Apple. I'm not at the show either, so I guess I'm on the same level as Apple. GoPro actually does creative marketing and they type of photographers (professional & enthusiasts) who will be at Photoplus aren't exactly GoPro's market. Ricoh does no creative marketing relative to GoPro, but I guess you could argue that the type of photographers that will be at Photoplus aren't a good fit for Ricoh either.

10-17-2014, 11:06 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Nikon is making money. Nikon's profits are down because of the P&S market. The higher end market has been a strength, and that is typically the people who go to these shows. Nikon isn't bleeding money. Profits are down, not negative.
[Cough . . . Cough . . . .] Nikon Precision. Makes up for all imaging losses and then some. And if you can break out the real cost / revenue relationship in Sony Imaging Hardware you're a damned fine analyst.
10-17-2014, 11:09 AM - 4 Likes   #33
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So I guess I won't attend Photo Plus this year--maintaining a perfect 72-year record of non-attendance.
10-17-2014, 11:14 AM   #34
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Honestly, as craftsperson selling prints for 75-400 dollars, I wouldn't attend a show that had less than 20,000 customers. Since Pentax is 5% market share, if it was going to be a show where 95% of the people there were committed to buying product other than mine, the number for me would be maybe 400,000 so I go a show to sell to 20. If I look at show costs, hotel rooms, the cost of my Booth etc, I need to sell to 20 people just to cover my costs and make minimum wage.

So I look at this show and think, 22,000 people.. that's nothing. What a piddly ass little waste of time. You guys do know Ohio State regularly puts 100,000 in the stand at a game. I bet I could get 20,000 walking buy a well placed booth on game day. Why is anyone getting all excited about pentax not being there?


Last edited by normhead; 10-17-2014 at 11:26 AM.
10-17-2014, 11:22 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Sony has been bleeding money because of their other businesses (TVs, phone, computers). Sony's E-mount series has been doing very well. Nikon is making money. Nikon's profits are down because of the P&S market. The higher end market has been a strength, and that is typically the people who go to these shows. Nikon isn't bleeding money. Profits are down, not negative.

Ricoh is not Apple. I'm not at the show either, so I guess I'm on the same level as Apple. GoPro actually does creative marketing and they type of photographers (professional & enthusiasts) who will be at Photoplus aren't exactly GoPro's market. Ricoh does no creative marketing relative to GoPro, but I guess you could argue that the type of photographers that will be at Photoplus aren't a good fit for Ricoh either.
Honestly I prefer they don't spend money in marketing, reduce they cost and offer products at an interresting price. I don't need my camera maker to organise events. Marteking is just an expensa that increase the cost. I just need to find the company that can give me the product I want. I got it. I'am happy.

---------- Post added 10-17-14 at 08:26 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So every other camera company including Lomography can pull it off, but Ricoh just doesn't have the resources? The largest show in North America isn't worth the trouble?
So every other camera company is making a mistake by wasting resources on this show? Ricoh is smarter than all of them?

I sure Ricoh is considering what they "could have been doing", but part of the criticism is that (so far) they always end up doing nothing.

I was at a happy hour/meet & greet for local professional photographers and had lady ask if the K-3 was a film camera. I wanted to slap her. She does over 30 weddings a year starting at $4,000 and has no clue, but its really not her fault. Neither Hoya nor Ricoh have invested in marketing.
For me there 2 way to see this girl situation:

- either she doesn't give a shit: gear is just a tool and she concentrate more on creativity and how she use it that the gear itself. And she has no reason to know much more than the camera she has now.
- either she more like a geek and want to know everything about her job including the latest gear... And then not knowing what is K3 is more showing she is lacking than anything else.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 10-17-2014 at 11:27 AM.
10-17-2014, 02:09 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
For shows, they are only interesting for some reasons:

- many visitors (100k+)
- showing new gear (if you have)
- getting mediaattention (so not al shows are the same)
I guess this show isn't fitting in.
Yes, they do not have a new Theta to go for the show.
They only have K-S1, 645Z, K-3, and can skip one.
10-17-2014, 02:28 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Yes, they do not have a new Theta to go for the show.
They only have K-S1, 645Z, K-3, and can skip one.
And here's another helpful aside. Jeez. Why do they need enemies?
10-17-2014, 03:11 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
And here's another helpful aside. Jeez. Why do they need enemies?
No. It is only to say that Ricoh Imaging US do not have the means, or interest in exhibiting.
Theta was shown in Europe last year, and the venue was not organised by RIAC.
All the same, Photokina showcase is not sponsored or organised by RIAC.
Nor is CP+.

In other words, do not blame Ricoh Imaging (generally speaking a vague term, but many users thinking: Japan) for lack of presence in photo shows in Americas. Japanese mother company (obviously) will not waste their money in failed markets. (As obviously RIAC won't sacrifice theirs either.)

Only tragedy is that RIAC is the official announcer of products in the western markets in English language, which is a marketing error on Ricoh Imaging Japan's end. They should announce all their products in the western market from the UK or from Europe. Those are stronger Ricoh's markets anyway. That could help global English speaking users understand that actions, lack of actions, gaffes, US pricing policy, US deals or statements of the RIAC are not dictated by Ricoh Imaging Japan.

But the official announcement part in English, coming from the US, confuses everybody. RIAC organises nothing, but it appears it is the "global" mother company.


Last edited by Uluru; 10-17-2014 at 03:30 PM.
10-17-2014, 03:32 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Even Samsung has a booth.
Which may be a reason NOT to go.

These trade exhibits mostly preach to the choir and offer little ROI IMO.
10-17-2014, 03:39 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But the official announcement part in English, coming from the US, confuses everybody. RIAC organises nothing, but it appears it is the "global" mother company.
That's about the strangest thing I've ever read here.
10-17-2014, 03:52 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So every other camera company including Lomography can pull it off, but Ricoh just doesn't have the resources?
Lomography is more than hardware, its a culture unto itself.


QuoteQuote:
The largest show in North America isn't worth the trouble?
At this point in time, I actually don't believe it is worth the trouble for Ricoh.


QuoteQuote:
So every other camera company is making a mistake by wasting resources on this show? Ricoh is smarter than all of them?
Not necessarily "a mistake", but a different POV. If you saw a thousand people jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?


QuoteQuote:
sure Ricoh is considering what they "could have been doing", but part of the criticism is that (so far) they always end up doing nothing.
A valid criticism. I'm a Mets fan, though, so perhaps I am drawn to inertia.


QuoteQuote:
I was at a happy hour/meet & greet for local professional photographers and had lady ask if the K-3 was a film camera. I wanted to slap her. She does over 30 weddings a year starting at $4,000 and has no clue, but its really not her fault. Neither Hoya nor Ricoh have invested in marketing.
I've never been a professional photographer, but in the industries in which I have been a professional, I always made it my business to know what's going on, so IMO she's lazy as far as the knowing the industry goes.
10-17-2014, 03:59 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
These trade exhibits mostly preach to the choir and offer little ROI IMO.
You mean like bloggers who do gear reviews? Yes. That's who typically shows up. Like people who run camera specific forums? Yes. They go to shows too. I would guess that Samsung is going to get a lot of "free" press from the gear bloggers over the NX-1.

When Fuji launched the X-mount they ran traditional advertising, but the heavy lifting was done by the 300 photographers/bloggers that Fuji used.

Ricoh seems to is copying the Hoya marketing plan. I'm sure they will have the same degree of success.
10-17-2014, 04:15 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Ricoh seems to is copying the Hoya marketing plan. I'm sure they will have the same degree of success.
Just the opposite of Hoya - Ricoh has been showing a profit and gaining market share the past two years.
10-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Just the opposite of Hoya - Ricoh has been showing a profit and gaining market share the past two years.
Winder has a point of view, and it is consistently applied.
10-17-2014, 05:07 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Winder has a point of view, and it is consistently applied.
"There are none so blind as those who won't see."
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