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10-19-2014, 07:29 AM   #61
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IMO The whole Expo is a waste of time and money being this close to Photokina. With the Internet everyone can see what is being released and really don't need to see it again at another Venue.

10-19-2014, 07:51 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
IMO The whole Expo is a waste of time and money being this close to Photokina. With the Internet everyone can see what is being released and really don't need to see it again at another Venue.
I already had that this time in Cologne. I prepared to much and was left with zero surprises at Photokina.
10-19-2014, 07:55 AM - 2 Likes   #63
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Well, I remember a time when all the "real" pros used Leica rangefinder cameras. Kodak made some really good SLR's in Germany called Retina and had some awesome German glass on them. They were never realy heavily marketed by Kodak as they had decided that the real money was in film. And it was. Nikon was pretty big. This after Japan go serious about quality i nthe late 50's/ early 60'. Most wedding potographers that used 35mm SLR's chose Mirandas because of their rediculoulsy quiet shutters. They made about as much noise as a rangefinder. Pentax was well respected and Canon was working hard to best Nikon. Olympus was there too with some really good stuff.

Canon got to where it is today by developing great strategy. They learned tha pros are not as much equipment loay as they are support loyal. They developed a program where pros using Canon cameras got world class support. Camera fails on a remote shoot? We'll have a loaner to you tomorrow. You keep it until we repair your's or you get a new one. This was a program you qualified for and Canon lived up to it's word on their support levels. They went after the names in the industry with this program and it was wildly successful. Suddenly Canon cameras sarted showing up all over the place. Their sales trickled down through camera lines developed for the rest of us. Nikon scrambled to catch up, Miranda went away, and poor Pentax started getting sold and resold. It never stood a chance.

I am happy that Ricoh has acquired Pentax. Hoya was killing the brand as mentioned above. I still own two Ricoh XRM's and they were great values for the money. Ricoh does have experience in the marketplace and seems genuinely interested in pumping some life into the brand. This is not an overnight process. I am willing to give them a chance and lok forward what is to come.
10-19-2014, 08:32 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Some people cares. Really. Others not. And if you don't care, what's the problem?
I have my original Spotmatic and LX, lenses I bought new from that era that I frequently use, a K5, KIis, a K3 and way too many *'s and LTD's to practically use. Since the 90's, all bought online after being informed online. If Ricoh wants to throw money at R&D instead of 'fluff', I'm only to happy to be informed in due course about break-throughs. I don't require instant gratification to pursue photography.

10-19-2014, 05:31 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
IMO The whole Expo is a waste of time and money being this close to Photokina. With the Internet everyone can see what is being released and really don't need to see it again at another Venue.
On one hand it is true. But information without a real-life proof has little value.
That is, there is no substitute for trying out a camera and a lens and a system in the real world. And a show is a perfect way to interact with real buyers, not only with prying eyes behind screens. No amount of information on the web can persuade something is for you if all is left to your imagination without proof.

I myself can testify to that truth: I was tempted to buy Fujifilm X100 despite it being a half-cooked camera in its first iteration. Because I felt it was a very good start, had promise, felt the charm of dual viewfinder, saw how beautiful images can be. And I though I could compensate for its lacking on other ends. That was the power of a real-life meeting with the camera I would not buy based on specs alone!

So if RIAC does not believe in that power of reality, the power of persuasion of a real-life experience — they will never come to any show in the Americas, only maybe on something very local and minuscule in scope. And we should not blame Ricoh Imaging mother company Japan for "missing yet another show, and that they should focus on R&D". No, that has nothing to do with R&D or Ricoh Japan. Get your facts straight, boys.

It is the local decision, nothing else. RIAC perhaps thinks they cannot sell half a dozen of K-3 cameras, a dozen of hi-end lenses, three or four 645Z cameras in the show to pay off the cost of participation and gain 50 or 100 newly born users who will testify the quality of Pentax equipment, and who will commit in real purchase into the system(s) very soon. To RIAC it is perhaps more comfortable to sell anonymously behind a web shop tons of K-50s with a kit lens. It is their impediment, their vision, not Ricoh's.

Last edited by Uluru; 10-19-2014 at 05:39 PM.
10-19-2014, 06:57 PM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is the local decision, nothing else. RIAC perhaps thinks they cannot sell half a dozen of K-3 cameras, a dozen of hi-end lenses, three or four 645Z cameras in the show to pay off the cost of participation and gain 50 or 100 newly born users who will testify the quality of Pentax equipment, and who will commit in real purchase into the system(s) very soon. To RIAC it is perhaps more comfortable to sell anonymously behind a web shop tons of K-50s with a kit lens. It is their impediment, their vision, not Ricoh's.
Just to break even RIAC would need, I don't know, $25,000 or more of Division Net Revenue directly attributable to PhotoEXPO. At the Distributor markup that's one heck of a lot more product that half a dozen bodies and some lenses. I'm not even sure RIAC has 3 645z's in North America available for sale, so they'd get no benefit there.

Why must everyone assume they make bad business decisions? Try looking at these decisions as if they're good business decisions and work backward to the conditions that would make that so. You just might find the conditions are exactly the conditions RIAC operates under.

The sooner we face the fact that Pentax isn't Canon and isn't going to be Canon any time soon, if ever, the better able we'll be to either use Pentax or move on to whatever other brand has what we want - which will be a good decision.

Wishing Pentax was Canon, attacking RIAC for not acting like Pentax is Canon, is a form of self-delusion.
10-20-2014, 01:07 AM - 1 Like   #67
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I don't think that's anyone who believe that Pentax will became a Canon in a short time. But since other small companies, like Fuji, and Olympus find resources to go to exhibitions, and to be very dynamic, in general, why not Pentax.

I remember when I've bought my first DSLR. Was not more than 4 years ago. I did a lot of research on the net. But the final decision was made after I've gone in stores, and keep different cameras in my hand. I was going for a Nikon, or Canon. But after I saw the real cameras, and feel it in my hand, I've turned back to the computer to find something else. I discovered that Pentax could be a good choice. I've traveled 40 miles to a store which had Pentax, I've tried it, was OK in my hand, and I've bought it.

Something I don't understand. If people express some critical opinion, about some aspects, this means that they are attacking Pentax? My God!!! It like in the days of communism, when any critical opinion was an attack against the country?
10-20-2014, 02:56 AM   #68
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It's not "people", and it's not "some critical opinion"
Do you think Uluru's post had any degree of realism in it? Selling 6 cameras, 12 lenses and 3 645Z to pay off for the presence on an irrelevant show - that's some random nonsense to make it look easy.

Sure, it would be nice if Ricoh would rise it's presence - at the shows, through advertising; I wouldn't like them to divert money from Europe to the U.S. though. I didn't liked when we were subsidizing low U.S. prices.

10-20-2014, 03:40 AM - 1 Like   #69
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People would condemn Pentax Ricoh no matter what they would do.
-Pentax shows up, but has no new products to show - doomed, wasting resources on pointless show instead of lineup
or
-Pentax doesn't show up - doomed, can't afford to go to a show, detached from target market, has no plans
10-20-2014, 03:57 AM - 1 Like   #70
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Canon USA's event schedule in October/November, including sponsored events, makes interesting reading:

Canon Professional Services: Calendar Month View

Photographic Society of America Conference, Canon Professional Services in attendance and a Canon booth at PhotoPlus Expo, sponsored speakers at Merrimack Valley Photo Club, Nevada Camera Club, DFW Photo Expo etc etc etc.

Shows like PhotoPlus seem as much about getting your name out there and deep into lots of photographic communities and market niches, rather than trying to directly sell a minimum of 6 cameras and 12 lenses to attendees on the day. It seems silly for Ricoh to skip such marketing opportunties, especially in big, well-connected cities.
10-20-2014, 06:22 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Shows like PhotoPlus seem as much about getting your name out there and deep into lots of photographic communities and market niches, rather than trying to directly sell a minimum of 6 cameras and 12 lenses to attendees on the day. It seems silly for Ricoh to skip such marketing opportunties, especially in big, well-connected cities.
Canon's name is already "out there".

One of the more common complaints in the channel these days is that many consumers already know more than staff or salespeople.

This is very old school marketing and, as in the tech sector, many of these shows have been dwindling for years now.
10-20-2014, 07:16 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Canon USA's event schedule in October/November, including sponsored events, makes interesting reading:

Canon Professional Services: Calendar Month View
Canon Professional Services is not Canon retail marketing. Does Ricoh have a viable professional services infrastructure in North America? Do they even need professional services at this time?

Really. Give them a break.
10-20-2014, 09:04 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Canon retail marketing
Most of the activities on that calendar aren't CPS 'pro' events. Many of those small camera club meets and sponsored Canon speakers fall into the category of basic PR using Canon sponsored people, as part of this:

Canon DLC: Explorers of Light Home

I think in Europe they call it their 'Ambassadors Program'.

That sort of brand boosting 'user education' stuff is not rocket science to organise. Nothing to do with needing a massive pro support infrastructure.
10-20-2014, 09:24 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That sort of brand boosting 'user education' stuff is not rocket science to organise. Nothing to do with needing a massive pro support infrastructure.
I'm not apologizing for RIAC. They should do this kind of thing and many other things and I believe they want to do them. Sometimes even the simplest things are hard to do though until you have people and foundations in place. They'll get there and they're doing better - but the damage Hoya did in North America must have been pretty devastating.
10-20-2014, 11:06 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They should do this kind of thing
I don't want to unfairly nag them about it by any means. I understand they can't do everything.
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