Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-31-2014, 06:00 AM   #61
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,754
It's interesting.... during the old days, the line used to be, "designed for the way people take pictures, not for the numerical charts". It looks to me like this lens represents a complete change in philosophy. They've decided to get into the numbers game. IN that sense. the release of the MTF chart may signal the end of the true Pentax era. It started with the firing of the Pentax lens design team. Seeing this lens, I wonder if there's even anyone at Pentax who understands what the Pentax design principles were. For those who love their Canikn equipment it may signal the entrance of of the Pentax "just another camera company using the same lens design software" era. And for us older Pentax users, it may signal the start of the Pentax being "the same as all the other camera companies." It also raises lots of other issues... the possibility that all the companies are buying their blanks from one manufacturer and then manufacturing only their own lens casings if not already but in the future. As companies strive for the same thing (MTF ratings) in their lenses, it makes less and less sense not to share good designs, or at least have common elements designed at one facility for all manufacturers.

In any case, this is way to much to be thinking about this early in the morning. But, the lens doesn't inspire me. Hopefully I get a 31 ltd and 77 ltd before they're discontinued. Since I retired 7 years ago... has Pentax released even one prime? It seems to be an endless parade of consumer zooms. I have the 18-135 and the DA*60-250. Despite what folks say about the 18-135, that's really all the zooms I want. It's getting to be disappointing following this endless parade of zooms. This may be a great lens. But, why wouldn't I just by a 15 ltd to go with what I've got? MY guess is they no longer have a designer who understands how to build a good prime, that would fit with their previous light weight and compact philosophy. If they do have such a guy, they've been keeping him on ice for a very long time now.

Maybe they should just decide who they want to be for the next 50 years, hire a bunch of new guys and just abandon the old Pentax. Maybe that's what they've done.

Does Pentax now stand for "more consumer zooms, no new primes?" The only recent prime, the 560 is a telescope design pretty much. Nothing like the * 600s. Just more evidence, the team that made Pentax Pentax is gone.

I think I'm going to have to just get my 31 and 77 and ride off into the sunset.


Last edited by normhead; 10-31-2014 at 06:15 AM.
10-31-2014, 06:03 AM   #62
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 2,951
Are you sure a good* prime is more difficult to design than a good* zoom ?
I doubt it

* : whatever the lens philosophy.
10-31-2014, 06:29 AM   #63
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,325
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Are you sure a good* prime is more difficult to design than a good* zoom ? I doubt it * : whatever the lens philosophy.
Good primes: DFA 100mm macro, FA 77mm ltd, DA* 55mm, DA 15mm ltd,.. I don't see any zoom matching these varied examples (and there are many more)
The main problem is that even if the lens has very high resolution, it is still a slow lens. This already affects the bokeh, AF, low light capabilities. I don't know, but I find it hard to give over $600 for a lens that has an f5.6 aperture on one end (unless its extreme telephoto). This was the main complaint against the DA 20-40mm ltd, as well, but that one has a slightly artistic output and decent enough sharpness (according to photos I saw).
I am interested to see how the 16-85mm performs, of course, but like I said earlier, we already have 18-135mm, 17-70mm.. not sure how this lens is significantly better. Main things are DC and WR - we'll see how many Pentaxians go for it.
10-31-2014, 06:32 AM   #64
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Since I retired 7 years ago... has Pentax released even one prime? It seems to be an endless parade of consumer zooms. I have the 18-135 and the DA*60-250. Despite what folks say about the 18-135, that's really all the zooms I want.
I know we disagree about the 18-135, but in my mind at least, this was supposed to be an improved 18-135. We'll see when the actual pictures come out, though... and of course Pentax is likely to run both lenses for a long time.

I believe Pentax put out the 50mm F/1.8 and the 35mm F/2.4 in the last four or five years. So you get two primes!

10-31-2014, 06:36 AM   #65
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,325
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I believe Pentax put out the 50mm F/1.8 and the 35mm F/2.4 in the last four or five years. So you get two primes!
And 40mm XS and HD limiteds. But all of these are older designs (FA 35mm, FA 50mm f1.7), adjusted for digital. Not really optical innovation, when its just digital coatings, plastic barrel, removing aperture ring (and DoF scales in some cases), and making max aperture slightly lower. Most of these things are made to cut costs anyway.
10-31-2014, 06:52 AM   #66
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,754
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I know we disagree about the 18-135, but in my mind at least, this was supposed to be an improved 18-135. We'll see when the actual pictures come out, though... and of course Pentax is likely to run both lenses for a long time.

I believe Pentax put out the 50mm F/1.8 and the 35mm F/2.4 in the last four or five years. So you get two primes!
I was sad before, now you're making me cry.
10-31-2014, 07:24 AM   #67
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,288
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It also raises lots of other issues... the possibility that all the companies are buying their blanks from one manufacturer and then manufacturing only their own lens casings if not already but in the future.
Is it just me or do the Nikon 16-85, the Canon 15-85 and the Pentax 16-85 all look remarkably similar?
10-31-2014, 07:26 AM   #68
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Is it just me or do the Nikon 16-85, the Canon 15-85 and the Pentax 16-85 all look remarkably similar?
Disturbingly so. It's not just you.

10-31-2014, 08:25 AM   #69
Pentaxian
FantasticMrFox's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,097
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Is it just me or do the Nikon 16-85, the Canon 15-85 and the Pentax 16-85 all look remarkably similar?
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Disturbingly so. It's not just you.
You mean they are all black, long cylinders? Then yes - probably because they're camera zoom lenses with a similar focal length

Apart from that, I think the Pentax looks quite different from the other two, most notably on account of it's large 'knobby' rubber layer.
10-31-2014, 08:35 AM   #70
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,583
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
It's not just you.
All from the same factory in China. The parts are then shipped to the company factories in Thailand (Nikon), Vietnam (Pentax) and Japan (Canon) for minor customization and assembly, and branding.
Not impossible.
10-31-2014, 09:01 AM   #71
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
I thought it might be, so I looked up Canon and Nikon formulas... not exactly the same...





10-31-2014, 09:32 AM   #72
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2011
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,615
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's interesting.... during the old days, the line used to be, "designed for the way people take pictures, not for the numerical charts". It looks to me like this lens represents a complete change in philosophy. They've decided to get into the numbers game. IN that sense. the release of the MTF chart may signal the end of the true Pentax era.
As a satisfied user of a good copy of the recently released DA 20-40 Limited,
I have absolutely no concerns that Ricoh might be abandoning the classic Pentax philosophy.

Anyway, Pentax has a tradition of doing "sharp" lenses in parallel with "photographer's" lenses,
like the FA 35 in parallel with the FA 31.

---------- Post added 10-31-14 at 11:35 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
do the Nikon 16-85, the Canon 15-85 and the Pentax 16-85 all look remarkably similar?
Not to me. The Pentax lens doesn't say "VR" or "IS" on it!
10-31-2014, 12:24 PM   #73
Veteran Member
robjmitchell's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne Aus
Posts: 1,144
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's interesting.... during the old days, the line used to be, "designed for the way people take pictures, not for the numerical charts". It looks to me like this lens represents a complete change in philosophy. They've decided to get into the numbers game. IN that sense. the release of the MTF chart may signal the end of the true Pentax era. It started with the firing of the Pentax lens design team. Seeing this lens, I wonder if there's even anyone at Pentax who understands what the Pentax design principles were. For those who love their Canikn equipment it may signal the entrance of of the Pentax "just another camera company using the same lens design software" era. And for us older Pentax users, it may signal the start of the Pentax being "the same as all the other camera companies." It also raises lots of other issues... the possibility that all the companies are buying their blanks from one manufacturer and then manufacturing only their own lens casings if not already but in the future. As companies strive for the same thing (MTF ratings) in their lenses, it makes less and less sense not to share good designs, or at least have common elements designed at one facility for all manufacturers.

In any case, this is way to much to be thinking about this early in the morning. But, the lens doesn't inspire me. Hopefully I get a 31 ltd and 77 ltd before they're discontinued. Since I retired 7 years ago... has Pentax released even one prime? It seems to be an endless parade of consumer zooms. I have the 18-135 and the DA*60-250. Despite what folks say about the 18-135, that's really all the zooms I want. It's getting to be disappointing following this endless parade of zooms. This may be a great lens. But, why wouldn't I just by a 15 ltd to go with what I've got? MY guess is they no longer have a designer who understands how to build a good prime, that would fit with their previous light weight and compact philosophy. If they do have such a guy, they've been keeping him on ice for a very long time now.

Maybe they should just decide who they want to be for the next 50 years, hire a bunch of new guys and just abandon the old Pentax. Maybe that's what they've done.

Does Pentax now stand for "more consumer zooms, no new primes?" The only recent prime, the 560 is a telescope design pretty much. Nothing like the * 600s. Just more evidence, the team that made Pentax Pentax is gone.

I think I'm going to have to just get my 31 and 77 and ride off into the sunset.
I think you might be a little harsh on recent prime releases based on the hoya period. They have not released much K-mount stuff at all. It will be interesting to see what Ricoh releases once they release the full frame. Obviously some fast zooms are a priority.
10-31-2014, 12:46 PM   #74
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
I think you might be a little harsh on recent prime releases based on the hoya period. They have not released much K-mount stuff at all. It will be interesting to see what Ricoh releases once they release the full frame. Obviously some fast zooms are a priority.
It was interesting. There weren't many lenses intro'd, sure, but they intro'd the K-5, etc... it wasn't like it was a complete dearth of products. Besides, there was already a lineup of lenses that was pretty good optically speaking.
10-31-2014, 12:56 PM   #75
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 2,951
QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
As a satisfied user of a good copy of the recently released DA 20-40 Limited,
I have absolutely no concerns that Ricoh might be abandoning the classic Pentax philosophy.

Anyway, Pentax has a tradition of doing "sharp" lenses in parallel with "photographer's" lenses,
like the FA 35 in parallel with the FA 31.

---------- Post added 10-31-14 at 11:35 AM ----------



Not to me. The Pentax lens doesn't say "VR" or "IS" on it!
+1, obviously also Inside
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
16mm, 72mm, af, barrel, bundle, da, da 16-85, f4, fa, fe, ff, filter, hd, iq, kit, lens, lenses, lot, page, pentax, pentax da, pentax da 16-85, pentax news, pentax rumors, philosophy, price, usd
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
16-85mm vs 18-135mm wr Conqueror Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 10-12-2014 02:41 PM
Aargh! Just bent the metal lens hood on my Sigma 8-16 Unsinkable II Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 31 12-21-2012 08:20 AM
Sigma 85mm/1.4 price for Pentax mount now released. Pentaxor Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 91 10-25-2010 08:14 PM
Just bought myself the 16-50mm lurchlarson Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12 05-24-2010 07:48 AM
Topaz Denoise 4 just released! JohnBee Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 05-07-2010 07:46 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:02 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top