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12-20-2014, 11:13 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
Any rumours or info when the new Big & Fast zooms will arrive?? especially the 80/100-400 F4- ?
if your reading this Mr. Pentax/Ricoh please give a sign/ smoke signal,lightning,comet or whatever before I have to look elsewhere for something longer
I asked Ricoh to wait until you buy my Sigma 50-500.

12-27-2014, 05:38 PM - 3 Likes   #62
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Results of last meeting are:
Still no public shedule for the lenses,still lenses for 35mm,both are no Tamron copys.
So the same informations like at Photokina.
Till April a new firmware for 645 and K.
Still not much mor than before,sorry.
Best regards
12-27-2014, 05:48 PM   #63
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Awful news and we're entering the new year.
12-27-2014, 05:57 PM   #64
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Not awful......both lenses had K mount.
100% informations we will get a couple of weeks or days before,so itīs all cool

12-27-2014, 06:16 PM   #65
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^^ Ricoh will tell us when they are ready to tell us, and not before. That's just normal. Last I heard was nine or so months from late August, 2014. Same time frame for the Unicorn. Perhaps both are pushed back a bit now.

I still believe 645 work (lenses as well) has pushed other projects aside.
12-27-2014, 06:37 PM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Awful news and we're entering the new year.
Why awful??
- lenses are for 35mm
- lenses are for k-mount
- lenses are not Tamron copies
- lenses are still progressing (not canceled) and more info will be forthcoming

Most rumors seemed to think sometime next fall for release so all I see is good news. Two new lenses designed for FF, coming when they are ready.
12-27-2014, 09:42 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
^^ Ricoh will tell us when they are ready to tell us, and not before. That's just normal. Last I heard was nine or so months from late August, 2014. Same time frame for the Unicorn. Perhaps both are pushed back a bit now.

I still believe 645 work (lenses as well) has pushed other projects aside.
The 645z gets Ricoh somewhere they want to be and a clientele they know how to service. The tendency of the market has been to sell lots and lots of new boxes; the better technology has been the driver as sensors get better and better. With stills the improvements are now going to be marginal and for a professional photographer what they have now can service their needs for quite a while. The 645 market is not an upgrade-every-year type of place, but by firmware upgrades and improvements in service infrastructure and better lenses new market segments can be opened while keeping the body relatively static except for manufacturing upgrades.

Imagine what would happen in the 645 market if 1. Video was improved substantially by firmware. Better codecs and improvements in handling that made it viable in that market? 2. New lenses introduced, covering all the holes; leaf shutters for the flash folks, new releases of the classic focal lengths. 3. A service infrastructure put in place with spare and replacement bodies, rental lenses and the like. 4. Implement a lighting technology that meets the needs of studio photographers.

They would increase the market available for 645z to sell into by these changes. The basic body would be around for a few years, and be viable.

Imagine this same strategy applied to a full frame body.

And to a lesser extent the aps-c, which outside of specific segments is a consumer product as opposed to a professional service.

The big two have been shaving their distribution support, and Sony isn't even bothering. It is rather disgusting to buy a system for $6-10k and have no support along with the likelihood that you will need to send it to a shop to be calibrated unless you are very lucky.
12-28-2014, 12:40 AM   #68
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I wanted them to say Happy New Year! Here they are!

12-28-2014, 12:41 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Results of last meeting are:
Still no public shedule for the lenses,still lenses for 35mm,both are no Tamron copys.
So the same informations like at Photokina.
Till April a new firmware for 645 and K.
Still not much mor than before,sorry.
Best regards
Awww... the wait is gonna kill someone sooner or later!
Thanks for the "inside" info, much appreciated!

---------- Post added 12-28-14 at 08:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
^^ Ricoh will tell us when they are ready to tell us, and not before. That's just normal. Last I heard was nine or so months from late August, 2014. Same time frame for the Unicorn. Perhaps both are pushed back a bit now.

I still believe 645 work (lenses as well) has pushed other projects aside.
...which is good news in itself... Ricoh is not doomed after all!
12-28-2014, 04:30 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
The 645z gets Ricoh somewhere they want to be and a clientele they know how to service. The tendency of the market has been to sell lots and lots of new boxes; the better technology has been the driver as sensors get better and better. With stills the improvements are now going to be marginal and for a professional photographer what they have now can service their needs for quite a while. The 645 market is not an upgrade-every-year type of place, but by firmware upgrades and improvements in service infrastructure and better lenses new market segments can be opened while keeping the body relatively static except for manufacturing upgrades.

Imagine what would happen in the 645 market if 1. Video was improved substantially by firmware. Better codecs and improvements in handling that made it viable in that market? 2. New lenses introduced, covering all the holes; leaf shutters for the flash folks, new releases of the classic focal lengths. 3. A service infrastructure put in place with spare and replacement bodies, rental lenses and the like. 4. Implement a lighting technology that meets the needs of studio photographers.

They would increase the market available for 645z to sell into by these changes. The basic body would be around for a few years, and be viable.

Imagine this same strategy applied to a full frame body.

And to a lesser extent the aps-c, which outside of specific segments is a consumer product as opposed to a professional service.

The big two have been shaving their distribution support, and Sony isn't even bothering. It is rather disgusting to buy a system for $6-10k and have no support along with the likelihood that you will need to send it to a shop to be calibrated unless you are very lucky.
1) Firmware update is not magical and do not make the hardware faster.

2) The model you depict would work only if we pay for the firmware update (and lot of money in case of 645Z) otherwise it is better for the camera maker to put everything in the new model as selling argument.

3) Another camera make will anyway release new camera, they will have the latest/greatest sensor with more pixels, better high iso, better possibility to handle video out of it and so on. Firmware alone will not manage to conpensate.
12-28-2014, 05:39 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by simon6z Quote
but just a matter of time
I guess I just wonder if it will be in my lifetime...
12-28-2014, 08:10 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
With stills the improvements are now going to be marginal
Based on my experience with the Q cameras,
I expect BSI to offer more than just a marginal improvement.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
I guess I just wonder if it will be in my lifetime.
Well, if you go skydiving, make sure you pack your parachute properly!
12-28-2014, 08:13 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
1) Firmware update is not magical and do not make the hardware faster.

2) The model you depict would work only if we pay for the firmware update (and lot of money in case of 645Z) otherwise it is better for the camera maker to put everything in the new model as selling argument.

3) Another camera make will anyway release new camera, they will have the latest/greatest sensor with more pixels, better high iso, better possibility to handle video out of it and so on. Firmware alone will not manage to conpensate.
Look on youtube for a project where someone did a short movie with the 645z. It wasn't speed or hardware power, it was bad codecs that made it disappointing. It is worth watching, I'm sure Ricoh has watched it. Then they told their engineers to fix it. That free firmware upgrade will if successful open a new market to the existing body. People who own it already will get it for nothing; but those who couldn't use it right now because it isn't adequate could, and will possibly buy one.

3. Yes indeed. Right now for me, what I shoot, how I shoot, I'll list the alternatives and rough price. I use the resolution of the K3 for cropping, so a less dense sensor would be a downgrade. If I want a stop improvement in noise I would have to go to something like the D810 or equivalent. Not counting lenses, that is close to $3k. In lenses, I shoot a 500 f4.5 I could get half a stop and go 500 f4, taking the better part of $10k. I probably could get an effective stop of better noise with software technique for substantially less. Mastering wildlife flash technique is less money as well with more potential gain.

I may very well pass on the next iteration of the aps-c, and look carefully at what FF offering shows up. I am not alone.

The possibility of a new market segment, medium format video, will drive Pentax until they satisfy the needs of that market. The unique spot they have in the market with an affordable medium format stills body will also drive them. There is a potential that increased volumes will start showing up in lower prices due to production efficiencies. Their 645 lenses are extremely expensive probably due to the very small production runs. They could start squeezing into the high end of the 35mm market. They have a window of time where they could have the revenues to build out a service offering as well.

Down market will be characterized by filling the holes in their offerings. And implementing the technologies developed for their high end offerings.

Ahasiman says a firmware update for the 645 and K in the spring. That makes perfect sense to me. Make a very nice box, then do what is needed to sell more of them.
12-28-2014, 08:16 AM - 2 Likes   #74
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The reason why Pentax Ricoh are so secretive is that they have a lot to lose. If Canikon, Sony, and the MFT crowd knew Ricoh's plans for a whole year ahead, they could release competitive products to seal the market. Ricoh has to stay quiet, has to be a wildcard
12-28-2014, 08:27 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
if you go skydiving, make sure you pack your parachute properly!
Reminds me of another key phrase, "If at first you don't succeed... then skydivings not for you".
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