[Danas_Anis]

I jut thought about it, and well, sure Ricoh now say they will not focus on video much, but that is because I guess they marketeers are not working and do not provide on numbers of people who bounce to pentax and bounce away because they find it lacking in video, then there are others like me who choose Pentax and wants better video features. This means there is the need from the market. Those who don;t need video could be more polite and don;t tell oh no, Pentax not do video, never focus on that blah blah blah. Reasons are: Pentax already is extremely good with still imaging. Ricoh Pentax doens;t need to do much to improve video capabilities, one thing is that they simply are not using their current hardware to the possibilities, to assign two developers to work on video mode won;t really change anything to how pentax improve still images. but these two developer may do huge difference to the way Pentax cameras stand in the market.

Another thing is instead of having k500 line or KS-1 they could introduce a filmmaker oriented camera, They could thing about what they did wrong with k-01, and revive that, and lets say keep all still capturing deparmtent as is on current k50, maybe give extra pixels so it would talk better to the pixel peepers, work on some phase detection technology for video AF tracking (I would not care about AF in video, but when the cam is on a steadycam gear, sometimes you need reliable af tracker of faces).
My dream could be this: K30 body, I like it and its design, get rid of mirror, make it system camera with good EVF, flip out or swivel screen.sensor shift shake reduction, focus peaking while recording video, better quality codec, mic and audio jacks, clean HDMI out for external recording with tool like Atomos shotgun etc. Also consider 4K. I got really scared when I saw 4K televisions being already on salea at affordable prices in my country, where technology innovations come pretty late usually. Some of people are already giving questions about 4K footage.... Well anyway, I would be happy with such a camera:

K30 like body (wr)
Sensor same one as k3 with DRIII or the one on K-3 which does better job with dust removal.
I am completely happy with k-30 image quality, but if Ricoh Pentax is generous enough to give what is in k-3 for APC sensor I would love it, but k-30 level is good enough.

make it mirrorless. No need to make the body tiny small, just put away mirror and its mechanism and use the space for something that could enrich camera for something.

EVF is a must.

Good video codec capture, that would result in high broadcast quality video footage.
To keep the camera on sales for longer time, next to 1080p HD offer cinema 4K (24, 25. 30, and if possible 60 FPS) You can get rid if 720p and smaller resolutions. Very small amount of people use these nowadays.
Focus peaking during video recording,
Ability to change aperture during video recording if the one uses electronic lens.
Clean HDMI out for external recording.
Sensor shift shake reduction, (when you have a connected external mil or other audio capturing devices, you place them somewhere the one would not cause sound from operating the camera so really, no need for software based SR, Sensor Shift does a better job)
Connectivity would be great for a remote control via smartphones. I never thought it would be so great, but after I tried it at my friends camera, gosh it was like a wonder, remote control for filming opens amazing possibilities. Also, when you are filming a seminar of some kind, it is nice to be able to wirelessly broadcast video to pc which send it to projections.

flip out of swivel screen.

The only technologies that I am not seeing at pentax are swivel screens, but we have flip out screen on 645z, that is good enough, and touch screen, but touch screens are just the cool way of being modern, nothing vital. and if I udnerstood the add corectly, Ricoh Pentax already has a wireless connectivity built in in their rugged WG(?) latest camera.

I think Pentax should try it. Honestly Pentax K-mount is so awesome and would come extremely loved by filmmakers because pentax old lenses are pure awesome. Not to mention how cheap Ricoh Pentax could earn big money by resurrecting the designs of their old lenses and renew them into cine style lenses. I forgot the name of the brand, but there are some popular cine type lenses that cost no less than a modern full featured high class electronic lens with AF and stuff, but these cine lenses are for fillmmakers, has really nice focusing ring (the ones on old pentax lenses are very similar) and has no electronics at all, maybe to change aperture one connection, so I see many missed opportunties from Ricoh Pentax side, they have everything except will to do the step.


It is not like Pentax needs to try to go into hollywood productions, only recognize bridge imagers, people who do stills photography and do filmmaking.

[Nicolas06]

I jut thought about it, and well, sure Ricoh now say they will not focus on video much, but that is because I guess they marketeers are not working and do not provide on numbers of people who bounce to pentax and bounce away because they find it lacking in video, then there are others like me who choose Pentax and wants better video features. This means there is the need from the market. Those who don;t need video could be more polite and don;t tell oh no, Pentax not do video, never focus on that blah blah blah. Reasons are: Pentax already is extremely good with still imaging. Ricoh Pentax doens;t need to do much to improve video capabilities, one thing is that they simply are not using their current hardware to the possibilities, to assign two developers to work on video mode won;t really change anything to how pentax improve still images. but these two developer may do huge difference to the way Pentax cameras stand in the market.

Kind of naive view for me here, sorry. You think that:
- you have better insign on overall market than their marketers that can't even understand how many client they miss without having good video... And of course you did an in-deph analysis of this and had different conclusion
- you think that even through they say they do not focus on video, you or me can convince them to change their mind... Just because you think they should do this way.
- you think they do not have anybody in their team working to make the video software to work and that 2 random engineer could do the trick... I suppose you are expert in software design in embedded device... for me it is more 10-20 guys working for 5 years... They may have already more software developpers focussing on video capabilities than that.

Another thing is instead of having k500 line or KS-1 they could introduce a filmmaker oriented camera,

Sure because you want it this must be their best option

lso consider 4K. I got really scared when I saw 4K televisions being already on salea at affordable prices in my country, where technology innovations come pretty late usually. Some of people are already giving questions about 4K footage.... Well anyway, I would be happy with such a camera:

The only reliable source of 4K movies are cinema. 4K TV use often a part of the signal to manage 3D so they can't be 4K and 3D at the same time. And the only reliable content of 4K is photography.

The infrastructure is not here for even full hd broadcasting and most movies one can buy (something less and less people do theses days) is 2K. I'd say if a blockbuster can sell blueray in 2K and DVD still sell in SD, it is likely you can have a business even if limited by 2K.

If you go for it anyway I'd say good luck to you to do some serious post processing of 4K video with your computer.

I think Pentax should try it. Honestly Pentax K-mount is so awesome and would come extremely loved by filmmakers because pentax old lenses are pure awesome. Not to mention how cheap Ricoh Pentax could earn big money by resurrecting the designs of their old lenses and renew them into cine style lenses. I forgot the name of the brand, but there are some popular cine type lenses that cost no less than a modern full featured high class electronic lens with AF and stuff, but these cine lenses are for fillmmakers, has really nice focusing ring (the ones on old pentax lenses are very similar) and has no electronics at all, maybe to change aperture one connection, so I see many missed opportunties from Ricoh Pentax side, they have everything except will to do the step.

This is even worse, you ask them to increase they inventory and so the money immobilized waiting for client to buy the gear and to have their opticians spend their time designing lenses for movies instead of for example prepary a set of FF lense if they plan an FF camera or releasing the lenses in the roadmap like the 12-28 or 70-200... Many wait after a fast action/sport tele and this 70-200 might really be this one. Maybe there more still shooters that care of this lens that Pentax will be able to sell 1000-2000$ per unit than users that want a cheap movie oriented camera body... If at least it was to be on the new camera flagship and sell for 1500$... Look at KS1 or K500 prices. There no money to make here.

[Danas_Anis]

Kind of naive view for me here, sorry. You think that:
- you have better insign on overall market than their marketers that can't even understand how many client they miss without having good video... And of course you did an in-deph analysis of this and had different conclusion
- you think that even through they say they do not focus on video, you or me can convince them to change their mind... Just because you think they should do this way.
- you think they do not have anybody in their team working to make the video software to work and that 2 random engineer could do the trick... I suppose you are expert in software design in embedded device... for me it is more 10-20 guys working for 5 years... They may have already more software developpers focussing on video capabilities than that.



Sure because you want it this must be their best option



The only reliable source of 4K movies are cinema. 4K TV use often a part of the signal to manage 3D so they can't be 4K and 3D at the same time. And the only reliable content of 4K is photography.

The infrastructure is not here for even full hd broadcasting and most movies one can buy (something less and less people do theses days) is 2K. I'd say if a blockbuster can sell blueray in 2K and DVD still sell in SD, it is likely you can have a business even if limited by 2K.

If you go for it anyway I'd say good luck to you to do some serious post processing of 4K video with your computer.




This is even worse, you ask them to increase they inventory and so the money immobilized waiting for client to buy the gear and to have their opticians spend their time designing lenses for movies instead of for example prepary a set of FF lense if they plan an FF camera or releasing the lenses in the roadmap like the 12-28 or 70-200... Many wait after a fast action/sport tele and this 70-200 might really be this one. Maybe there more still shooters that care of this lens that Pentax will be able to sell 1000-2000$ per unit than users that want a cheap movie oriented camera body... If at least it was to be on the new camera flagship and sell for 1500$... Look at KS1 or K500 prices. There no money to make here.

Not saying I have better insight, only see how much they miss and look like not doing the work really, but that doens;t mean I have a better insight. But I was scouting around pentax related topics for few years and came to a conclusion, that Pentax really loose a lot due to their poor focus on video department. Of course the losses and general negatives comes from the lack of 35mm (a.k.a full frame) sensor lack. So they are not filling holes in two deparmtents. But are trying with with such experiments like k-01 and hire super expensive designer who ruins their possible very successful mirrorless system. Now they invest into a camera with blinking leds, that will not be big hit because well, it doens;t offer what people need next to those blinking leds, articulating screen and built in wifi as I personally see it, K-S1 is nice looking camera but it completely doens;t fit nor complete or even participate in the area Ricoh Pentax made it for... that is my own personal opinion, but if you target smartphone users to come to DSLRs swivel screen and built in wifi is a must, cause these people capture photos go to FB or wahtever social network and instantly upload selfless. KS-1 doesn't full fill that in a way people would expect. The only department where it will succeed is to people who like blinking led lights and colorful cameras. But design in general is very nice, can't comment on ergonomics though.

At least Ricoh Pentax seems to be filling the hole of absence of "FF" body....

Maybe next will be video.

You can think as much as you want that video is not important, but in the end it is. Ever since first video capable DSLR came to the public, now it is a big feature of any DSLR. Who ever started this created a new type of an artist and market. And yes, those who work on serious big hollywood straight production will surely pick Blackmagic Ursa or RED anytime rather than go with likes like 5D mark or other DSLR camera. But there are people in between. And new user, don;t know about you, but next to photoshoots my clients ask for videography.
What I want to say is I ma not telling Pentax to put Ursa or RED into small Pentax body, I am saying that video department is a big part of any DSLR system now. And there are users who require more serious look at it and would like to use Pentax.

As I see any business, the more you earn and stringer become, the better you are. Maybe I am naive, I am just looking into very simplistic schemes and as a result, I see self harming view from Ricoh Pentax, if they continue ignoring video next to photography.

Anyone can say that if you need video, get a camcorder, but camcorder that could offer what DSLRs can offer cost a fortune, so why not take those people and earn from them? I would think that Pentax should be happy that there are people who want Pentax, to push away a client is very easy, but to bring in is harder, so the longer they refuge to recognize indie filmmakers later on they won't be able to bring them back.

But to not hijack this thread, I guess we should end the discussion about video here. And let the rumors from the japan website be not forgotten.
Hundreds people can say pentax should not improve video and get rid of video, but I will still say they should give video features some love.

[asw66]

??

Video in Pentax cameras is second worst only to Leica's implementation.

Well, there are many of us who think of Pentax as the "Leica for the rest of us", so what are you complaining about?

[Digitalis]

Video in Pentax cameras is second worst only to Leica's implementation.

I sensed someone was ripping on Leica... as I recall Sigma doesn't even have Video implemented on their DSLRs or compact Foveon cameras. Fuji hasn't done all that well with their implementation of video either from what I have heard.

[thibs]

Super expensive designer has a cost near zero compared to designing and producingtheir own IC for image/video processing.
Remember they rely (up to to now) on Fijutsu's Milbeaut range. Before someone chime in and say they just have to make their own, I'll remind you all that even Nikon seem unable to produce their own IC.

All other competing OEM are electronics giants. They have the resources to do so. Ricoh/Pentax, not quite sure and even if they do, it takes time. A lot more time than designing a camera.

[Nicolas06]

Super expensive designer has a cost near zero compared to designing and producingtheir own IC for image/video processing.
Remember they rely (up to to now) on Fijutsu's Milbeaut range. Before someone chime in and say they just have to make their own, I'll remind you all that even Nikon seem unable to produce their own IC.

All other competing OEM are electronics giants. They have the resources to do so. Ricoh/Pentax, not quite sure and even if they do, it takes time. A lot more time than designing a camera.

+1. I'am a software engineer and that's really funny.

My non engineer friends imagine that i can repear computers. The company I work for manage one thing: ticket reservation for flights. I'am sure Danas_Anis would think that you can manage a reservation system like that with maybe a dozen geeks or something.

Well the company has arround 10000 employees not counting the contracting companies that work for us. Big airlines give us hundred million euros per year to manage their reservation system.

Who would pay that much if you could just hire a few geeks and do the work in a few months?

I have the impression that because everybody can get for free some software ilegally or that some do free software it for their pleasure that many have no idea of the real cost to do such things. But no group of geek is going to fix the video of Pentax for the pleasure. This couldn't futher away from the truth. More and more only big companies have the capacity to develop such products.

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Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-26-2014 at 07:24 AM.

[Danas_Anis]

+1. I'am a software engineer and that's really funny.

My non engineer friends imagine that i can repear computers. The company I work for manage one thing: ticket reservation for flights. I'am sure Danas_Anis would think that you can manage a reservation system like that with maybe a dozen geeks or something.

Well the company has arround 10000 employees not counting the contracting companies that work for us. Big airlines give us hundred million euros per year to manage their reservation system.

Who would pay that much if you could just hire a few geeks and do the work in a few months?

I have the impression that because everybody can get for free some software ilegally or that some do free software it for their pleasure that many have no idea of the real cost to do such things. But no group of geek is going to fix the video of Pentax for the pleasure. This couldn't futher away from the truth. More and more only big companies have the capacity to develop such products.

with all due respect life is not easy on anything. But to work on video mode it would not damage resources meant for still photography development in anyway and decent video mode in Pentax DSLRs could even help with sales and bring in more funds.... I see that here in the forums there are many afraid of videography folks and this is now hijacking the threat which has different topic.

Going back to the topic:

So next Ricoh Pentax cam might be K-3 with more DR, FF sensor better ISO performance, built in wifi and back-lit buttons. And probalby a flip out screen that we have seen on 645z
As for possible k60 Sensor from current k-3 with 24 megapixels to play with and probably backlit buttons as well.

Back lit buttons are cool.

[Na Horuk]

Video is one of those things that has to be on point. Not because anyone uses it, but because it is expected. Just like a high MP count.

[Nicolas06]

Video is one of those things that has to be on point. Not because anyone uses it, but because it is expected. Just like a high MP count.

Honestly, none of my friend asking for a good camera or looking for a good camera did care of video. 0% out of arround 10 persons... That's not much.

I don't want to generalize but the position of Ricoh is no issue for me. Would their improve video it would also be no issue... Excepted I will not spend 1$ for better video features and I'am not the only one in that case.

[Zygonyx]

Don't forget that professional videasts use manual controls only , so besides consumer market, how can you think that Pentax K-3 is not doing the job for its "enthusiast/pro" market target ?

[mee]

Video is one of those things that has to be on point. Not because anyone uses it, but because it is expected. Just like a high MP count.

Yet Pentax cameras have been average to bottom of the barrel when it comes to video features since video became a feature on SLR stills bodies... and they are still in the market, I mean Pentax is still around and kicking.

I think we pretty much know what we're getting into when we buy a camera. The novices aren't usually looking for the video features for which the enthusiast or pro want. The novices likely want a record button, zoom controls, focus controls, and a playback option.

I would think enthusiasts and pros will much more research and buy what they need. They are likely going Canon or elsewhere from the start. But then that is their niche. Pentax's is in still photography. So the people asking for comparable video features for Pentax as those manufacturer's whose niche is video are asking Pentax/Ricoh to switch niches. You'd have better results simply selling your Pentax gear and finding a SYSTEM catering to what you want to do.

I mean why sit around on the forum asking for something to be done that likely won't? You could be spending your time doing what you enjoy doing with the gear made for what you want to do.

One thing I've learned in my mere 4 and a half years of SLR photography is timing is KEY; Being at the 'right' place at the 'right' time is crucial for getting the images that awaken people's senses. And I've missed many shots by saying "I'll go back tomorrow" only to discover the setting, the next day, isn't the same as it was the previous day. Opportunity lost.

Don't lose opportunities hoping for things to change. We have a bit of say in our actions it seems.. so why not use it for things we can change ?

[Na Horuk]

One thing I've learned in my mere 4 and a half years of SLR photography is timing is KEY; Being at the 'right' place at the 'right' time is crucial for getting the images that awaken people's senses. And I've missed many shots by saying "I'll go back tomorrow" only to discover the setting, the next day, isn't the same as it was the previous day. Opportunity lost.

That's a great lesson. It gets lost in the constant debate over MP, AF, sensor size, lens specifications, etc. All those things are helpful, but there is a lot more to photography than stats