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11-29-2014, 11:42 AM - 2 Likes   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Oh, there are plenty of whiners from other countries, too!
Yes and most of them from US and elsewhere seem to spend a lot of time on boards like PF. Most of my time is spent elsewhere but I am a gadget geek and I cannot believe the quality of the stuff available to us right now - photography gear in particular. I just enjoy working/playing with my Pentax equipment today. If better comes along I will play with that. It doesn't come, I will enjoy the K3 et aliter for a long time.

11-29-2014, 12:13 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You are close. Those who interpreted what they think they heard are close. Here's the actual statement:

Jim Maloclm said to me directly, in April, 2013, that Ricoh believes there is room for a third full-line camera company and they intend to be that company over the intermediate term, defined as 5 to 7 years. The goal in the long term, which is 20 years, is to be the #1 camera maker - the dominant player.

You can find the thread I posted shortly thereafter, in which I quoted Jim, on the Q Forum.

When I write Ricoh is doing precisely what they said they intend to do my writing is based upon this conversation (and others I have had with Ricoh employees over the last several quarters). RIAC is doing much better in almost every way than they were two years ago. Apparently, though, they're not doing the things people here expect them to be doing (TV ads, magazine ads, staffing up sales reps, getting store distributions and such), so people here think they're not doing anything.

One thing for sure - they're not trying to be the third CaNikon. To the extent we expect them to do things CaNikon does, we'll think they're not doing anything if they don't do any of those things. However, maybe they really mean they want to be different - to take a different path. If they're doing things on a different path, and we're not looking for those things, then we'll think they're doing nothing.

Or maybe they're just a group of benighted, bad executives who stumbled their way to the 500th largest company on earth. Or maybe they bought Pentax for something other than cameras (such as patents) and they're milking the brand until it dies its own, slow death.

I choose not to believe the latter two possibilities.



Kinda sucks to realiise that Americans are a spoiled, whiny, demanding bunch that a certain manufacturer might choose to move to the end of the growth strategy, doesn't it?
So basically, Malcolm was walking back (to you) in a big way from what he himself put on the record. Or, he doesn't really know Ricoh's corporate intent and just reads the tea leaves in various ways at different times. If that's true, then no one here can say what Ricoh wants to be in this business anyway.
11-29-2014, 12:42 PM - 2 Likes   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Then what or who are they trying to be? If they are going to make DSLRs, they are going to be compared to Canon and Nikon. The only way to avoid competing with Canon and Nikon is to get out of the DSLR business.

Interviewer:
"So do you see Pentax in the next couple of years being a viable competitor to Canon and Nikon?"

Reply by Jim Malcolm:
"No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh."

Your comments are the exact opposite of public statements made by Pentax USA.

What should we believe?
1. You have better inside information than the head of Pentax USA?
2. Jim Malcolm is a liar. Pentax/Ricoh has no intention of competing with Canon & Nikon.
3. Jim is not a liar. He is just ignorant of Ricoh's real plans which they have shared with you, but not Jim.

The interview is asking about the "next couple of years". Not the 20 year plan. Jim's comments imply a very aggressive near term plan for the Pentax brand.

Marketing is about brand visibility. There is no such thing as invisible marketing. The idea that Ricoh is engaged in marketing, but we can't see it is comical.
No one has anything like the 645z. The K3 does well in a niche abandoned by the other two.

A DSLR with a normal lens is a dying market, being replaced by mirrorless and the same push that dismantled the compact market. I think there are too many players chasing a shrinking market, and it will come down to the last man standing. If Ricoh spent huge amounts of money chasing something that is shrinking and already filled with discounted overproduction, that would be the epitomy of foolishness.

So what have they done? A well appointed aps-c at a nice price point with a stable of compelling lenses. A small attractive lower end aps-c with the advantages of a well done viewfinder. A medium format offering that defines its own market, and is a great base upon which to build a professional service offering. So far. Yes it is a very competitive market and I believe they have needed to rebuild the engineering group from which future offerings will come. I'm certain that everyone in the industry has to revisit and rewrite their plans every month due to new technology and changing market conditions.

I don't quite see the problem. I've got the equipment I want, it works very well. I can see the advantage in full frame, but the dollar amounts make the first mover thrill less palatable. I think that a Pentax offering will oddly enough be what I want to buy, offering the advantages and features that I want for a price I will pay. So far that has been my experience. I suspect that the new body released this coming year will have the same effect on my results that the K5 did when I moved from an Olympus DSLR, and when I bought the da300, and the K3. Each was a substantial improvement over what I had previously at a reasonable price point. Better in that I could get shots I couldn't previously.
11-29-2014, 02:15 PM   #79
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If a company wants to be ranked number 3 in imaging & photography industry, then that company must spend in marketing alone more than number 4 and number 5 together, considering that number 3, 4 and 5 are already close match in an industry dominated by duopoly. So to stick out of rest of bottom feeders, one must spend more than at least two best other players in that small arena.
So does Ricoh spends more on marketing than Sony, Olympus and / or Fuji together?

Number 1 and number 2 could not be there where they are without some great spending on marketing and careful building of a brand. They own more 80% of the market. Number 3, if they want to come into the big boys league, they must spend too. So, whoever wants to claim number 3, must spend a lot, be bold and loud.

But the above claim by RIAC president is inconclusive. He might have said 3rd in photography industry, but inside his head thought DSLRs. So Pentax brand actually needed nothing to do, as they were already number 3.

To me it seems that reality paints a picture already. In the next 5 years, number 3 is clearly going to be Sony. All other manufacturers can try to agree how will they split 10% of the bottom end of market. That does not imply they are bad, but rather that they have realised the seriousness of situation. Instead of feeding their audience with empty promises, they have decided to fill shelves with interesting and different products.


Last edited by Uluru; 11-29-2014 at 02:25 PM.
11-29-2014, 07:04 PM   #80
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It is so easy to pick at words, and nuance language to support one's position. I suppose our biases are clouding our interpretations of what seem to be slightly different ways to express the corporate view. They believe they'll be the third camera company in a few years.

I'm optimistic.



But there's nothing for them here.
11-29-2014, 07:10 PM - 1 Like   #81
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From what I can see, Ricoh has really aggressive pricing on their current models. Not necessarily in bodies alone, but in packages. With current pricing, they should sell quite a few K5 II and K3 cameras, as well as lenses to go with them. I feel like they are doing whatever they can to build a base of users to feed the full frame camera they plan to release next year. If that base isn't there, such a release could be a flop.
11-29-2014, 07:29 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
From what I can see, Ricoh has really aggressive pricing on their current models. Not necessarily in bodies alone, but in packages. With current pricing, they should sell quite a few K5 II and K3 cameras, as well as lenses to go with them. I feel like they are doing whatever they can to build a base of users to feed the full frame camera they plan to release next year. If that base isn't there, such a release could be a flop.
This makes a great deal of sense.
11-29-2014, 07:33 PM   #83
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For what it's worth, the Silver K-3 is very prominently featured on the "What to Buy and Why" guide that is currently on the top of front page of dpreview (they of the anti-Pentax reputation), so the brand does appear to be getting some attention at the moment.

Also, inside the feature, the K-S1 is profiled among the "Best Interchangeable Lens Cameras under $1000," where it gets a very favorable and fair review.


Last edited by dcshooter; 11-29-2014 at 07:39 PM.
11-29-2014, 07:38 PM   #84
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Prices are always a good way to attract new costumers, with the latest price drops RICOH will increment their users base + will clear up some inventory at dealers so they can fill it up with new products soon, and they will make some price room for the upcoming bodies..

If we look it like that is a good thinking.. it could be even better if they do some strong online marketing.
11-29-2014, 07:55 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Prices are always a good way to attract new costumers, with the latest price drops RICOH will increment their users base + will clear up some inventory at dealers so they can fill it up with new products soon, and they will make some price room for the upcoming bodies..

If we look it like that is a good thinking.. it could be even better if they do some strong online marketing.
If you know that the K-3 successor with drop in value by 50% in the first year, will you buy new or wait for 1 year and save 50%? The K-3 is an excellent body, and unless the successor is ground breaking I see no reason to upgrade and pay a premium in the first year.

Smart people don't buy into systems for the bodies. They buy for the glass which represents a long term commitment.

---------- Post added 11-29-14 at 09:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
A DSLR with a normal lens is a dying market, being replaced by mirrorless and the same push that dismantled the compact market. I think there are too many players chasing a shrinking market, and it will come down to the last man standing. If Ricoh spent huge amounts of money chasing something that is shrinking and already filled with discounted overproduction, that would be the epitomy of foolishness.
IF the DSLR is a dying market, then K-mount doesn't have a future. It is a valid question. Someone starting out with a ILC system would be wise to take a good look at the different MILC systems on the market. Are you investing in dinosaur technology?
11-30-2014, 03:38 AM - 2 Likes   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If you know that the K-3 successor with drop in value by 50% in the first year, will you buy new or wait for 1 year and save 50%? The K-3 is an excellent body, and unless the successor is ground breaking I see no reason to upgrade and pay a premium in the first year.

Smart people don't buy into systems for the bodies. They buy for the glass which represents a long term commitment.

---------- Post added 11-29-14 at 09:01 PM ----------



IF the DSLR is a dying market, then K-mount doesn't have a future. It is a valid question. Someone starting out with a ILC system would be wise to take a good look at the different MILC systems on the market. Are you investing in dinosaur technology?
It really depends on whether you want the upgrade and can afford it and don't want to wait. Electronics are particularly prone to decreasing prices over time. The cutting edge computer you buy today, you could put together for half the price in a year. But if you want certain specs today, you end up paying for them. If you can't afford it, then there have been lower end cameras like the K50 and K5 II that offer probably 90 percent of what the K3 does for significantly cheaper.

I don't usually buy cameras on day one -- not so much because of the price gouging that companies do initially, but because there are often kinks that have to be worked out and I would rather let others deal with those and figure them out.
11-30-2014, 04:09 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It really depends on whether you want the upgrade and can afford it and don't want to wait. Electronics are particularly prone to decreasing prices over time. The cutting edge computer you buy today, you could put together for half the price in a year. But if you want certain specs today, you end up paying for them. If you can't afford it, then there have been lower end cameras like the K50 and K5 II that offer probably 90 percent of what the K3 does for significantly cheaper.

I don't usually buy cameras on day one -- not so much because of the price gouging that companies do initially, but because there are often kinks that have to be worked out and I would rather let others deal with those and figure them out.
I totally agree with you.
11-30-2014, 06:20 AM - 2 Likes   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
I totally agree with you.
The K3 is the only time i have not waited at least 6 months or a year for prices and problems to stabilize. I have not regretted that decision even once.

Last edited by Mikesul; 11-30-2014 at 09:37 AM.
11-30-2014, 08:35 AM - 2 Likes   #89
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This looks to me suspiciously like Pentax is . . . . . . marketing!!!!!!!


Nah. Couldn't possibly be.
11-30-2014, 11:01 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
The K3 is the only time i have not waited at least 6 months or a year for prices and problems to stabilize. I have not regretted that decision even once.
I feel the same about buying my K-3 on day one.
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