[Winder]

Lost in all of this speculative rancor; does the retailer make any money and what are the hoops the dealer has to deal with the importer/manufacturer/ distributor to insure a viable delivery of quality product, the return policy, and hundreds of other issues a dealer deals with? I spoke to a dealer recently who moaned vociferously about the "payment" of rebates by one of the big two and the mass of paper work, yet he has to carry this brand. If Ricoh was serious about dealers making a decent dealer margin here a few months ago and turning product, there might be an opening or even an open ear.

My local pro-shop doesn't carry Sony because of Sony's volume requirements and how much inventory they have to buy/carry to reach it. They have tried to work something out with Sony, but it hasn't happened yet. They have demand for the A7 line. They don't carry Pentax. They tell me I'm the only one who ever asks.

[loveisageless]

When I tour Best Buy my options for camera bodies are Nikon and Canon plastic fantastic entry level DSLRs or Nikon and Canon tank like "serious" cameras. Then there is the 2 rows of indistinguishable P&S cameras anchored at each end by small form factor Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. None of the aforementioned appearing very exciting. If indeed the P&S market is dying then there will be two rows available for smaller form factor medium priced quality DSLR cameras something neither Nikon or Canon seem to care to produce (with the exception of the Nikon D7100,which Nikon foolishly crippled with a small buffer). Pentax already has the cameras to fill that niche. It will be interesting to see if they are inclined to and can time it right so that they are offering a replacement product for the P&S space to retailers who will need to fill that floor space with something else. Opportunity may be knocking, but it remains to be seen whether Ricoh will answer and open the door.

[reh321]

When I tour Best Buy my options for camera bodies are Nikon and Canon plastic fantastic entry level DSLRs or Nikon and Canon tank like "serious" cameras. Then there is the 2 rows of indistinguishable P&S cameras anchored at each end by small form factor Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. None of the aforementioned appearing very exciting. If indeed the P&S market is dying then there will be two rows available for smaller form factor medium priced quality DSLR cameras something neither Nikon or Canon seem to care to produce (with the exception of the Nikon D7100,which Nikon foolishly crippled with a small buffer). Pentax already has the cameras to fill that niche. It will be interesting to see if they are inclined to and can time it right so that they are offering a replacement product for the P&S space to retailers who will need to fill that floor space with something else. Opportunity may be knocking, but it remains to be seen whether Ricoh will answer and open the door.

When I was at a Super Target a couple of weeks ago, the two sections of "serious" cameras were a vastness of black - except for the one white Pentax K-50 that stood out like a beacon. I assume that the Pentax strategy is to be "the other camera company"; only time will tell whether there are enough of us non-conformists for that strategy to succeed.

[monochrome]

You are, 100% correct. Better marketing, an sales will soar, I'm sure of it. Or is it, that they just don't advertise in our markets?

Doesn't anyone on this Board understand that if it was really this easy Ricoh would just do it?

[reh321]

Doesn't anyone on this Board understand that if it was really this easy Ricoh would just do it?

Of course you are right. My view is that the Asian (I use that term because I don't know how Japanese, Chinese, etc markets differ from each other) markets seem to be much different than the American and European markets. I believe that the various Pentax products have a place here, but that may be different than the place they have over there, and Pentax hasn't figured out the details yet. That is why I repeatedly refer to the Q family as "a niche product that hasn't found its niche yet".

[derekkite]

Of course you are right. My view is that the Asian (I use that term because I don't know how Japanese, Chinese, etc markets differ from each other) markets seem to be much different than the American and European markets. I believe that the various Pentax products have a place here, but that may be different than the place they have over there, and Pentax hasn't figured out the details yet. That is why I repeatedly refer to the Q family as "a niche product that hasn't found its niche yet".

I think Pentax has figured out the details. Think about it. The US retail market is dominated by a behemoth that doesn't make a profit. The brick and mortar stores buy products where they are vendor financed with agreements for a certain number of units on site, preferably with vendor stocking and display. Any not sold are shipped back to the vendor. That is where the black friday sales come from; instead of getting container loads of product back they sell them at whatever price will clear them out. The US consumer market isn't what it used to be.

I look at that and wonder why anyone would want to get dirty in that playground, especially in a market that is suffering from year on year decreases in sales numbers. The big boys are not liking it either. On top of that there is an enormous amount of product in the pipe ready to be discounted.

I notice that Ricoh doesn't play in that market with their other products. With Pentax, survival is the goal, and survival comes from profitable sales. I suspect that they have been profitable and showing a modest return on investment, which is an accomplishment in the current market.

I fail to see anything that is being done wrong. They have compelling products, they are selling through the channels that make sense to them, they are growing out their niches. It sounds like they are going to grow into more. And they are profitable. I like buying products from profitable companies. They may be around tomorrow.

[aleonx3]

Of course you are right. My view is that the Asian (I use that term because I don't know how Japanese, Chinese, etc markets differ from each other) markets seem to be much different than the American and European markets. I believe that the various Pentax products have a place here, but that may be different than the place they have over there, and Pentax hasn't figured out the details yet. That is why I repeatedly refer to the Q family as "a niche product that hasn't found its niche yet".

The main difference is that in Asia, one can not return a camera within 14 days without any penalty (restocking fee) - in other words, one can not take advantage of try-and-buy to use it for free. Besides, the Q family product is designed to be like a "Hello Kitty" product, which of course people outside of Japan or Asia would NOT have any interest. Canikony have much bigger production volume that they can flood the retail channels with products and thus have more bargaining power with retailers. Pentax has it figured out but don't think they want to play the same game (losing money) over here.

---------- Post added 12-02-2014 at 11:12 AM ----------

I think Pentax has figured out the details. Think about it. The US retail market is dominated by a behemoth that doesn't make a profit. The brick and mortar stores buy products where they are vendor financed with agreements for a certain number of units on site, preferably with vendor stocking and display. Any not sold are shipped back to the vendor. That is where the black friday sales come from; instead of getting container loads of product back they sell them at whatever price will clear them out. The US consumer market isn't what it used to be.

I look at that and wonder why anyone would want to get dirty in that playground, especially in a market that is suffering from year on year decreases in sales numbers. The big boys are not liking it either. On top of that there is an enormous amount of product in the pipe ready to be discounted.

I notice that Ricoh doesn't play in that market with their other products. With Pentax, survival is the goal, and survival comes from profitable sales. I suspect that they have been profitable and showing a modest return on investment, which is an accomplishment in the current market.

I fail to see anything that is being done wrong. They have compelling products, they are selling through the channels that make sense to them, they are growing out their niches. It sounds like they are going to grow into more. And they are profitable. I like buying products from profitable companies. They may be around tomorrow.

Exactly... totally agree with your thinking and analysis as well.

[monochrome]

Canikony have much bigger production volume that they can flood the retail channels with products and thus have more bargaining power with retailers. Pentax has it figured out but don't think they want to play the same game (losing money) over here.

Agree totally and I've been writing that for years. Thankfully the notion is beginning to receive some confirmation from others here.

[reh321]

I think Pentax has figured out the details. Think about it. The US retail market is dominated by a behemoth that doesn't make a profit. The brick and mortar stores buy products where they are vendor financed with agreements for a certain number of units on site, preferably with vendor stocking and display. Any not sold are shipped back to the vendor. That is where the black friday sales come from; instead of getting container loads of product back they sell them at whatever price will clear them out. The US consumer market isn't what it used to be.

I look at that and wonder why anyone would want to get dirty in that playground, especially in a market that is suffering from year on year decreases in sales numbers. The big boys are not liking it either. On top of that there is an enormous amount of product in the pipe ready to be discounted.

I notice that Ricoh doesn't play in that market with their other products. With Pentax, survival is the goal, and survival comes from profitable sales. I suspect that they have been profitable and showing a modest return on investment, which is an accomplishment in the current market.

I fail to see anything that is being done wrong. They have compelling products, they are selling through the channels that make sense to them, they are growing out their niches. It sounds like they are going to grow into more. And they are profitable. I like buying products from profitable companies. They may be around tomorrow.

Now, Pentax did have their own Black Friday - Cyber Monday sale, so they must be at least exploring that playground.

[Nicolas06]

Sony is a huge company. Its mobile phone, computer, & TV divisions have been getting killed the last few years. The sensor fabrication side of the business has been very profitable. The A7 line has been selling better than the A99. This year at Photokina Sony didn't even have an Alpha mount camera on display and the expected Alpha mount lenses have been moved back since all resources are now committed to the A7 line which is sell very well. MILC are already contributing to the cash flow. The losses have come from the P&S side of the business and the rather poor performance of the A-xx SLT line.

Basically, this just mean the a-mount is dead along with camera made for it. Still there is no significant variety of FE mount lenses and the roadmap was not well executed on that topic. The Sony position is not so easy and they are screwing up their old customers in the move while still lacking significant echosystem for the A7.

We will really see if it work well in 2-3 years.

[Nicolas06]

Interviewer:
"So do you see Pentax in the next couple of years being a viable competitor to Canon and Nikon?"

Reply by Jim Malcolm:
"No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh."

Just to clarify things. What did you expect?

Even if he was thinking that Pentax is dying and he need to find a new job, he would not have said that in the Interview. His job is to be optimistic and communicate that to others. If a few guys brought more into the system or didn't switch because of what he said, he was successfull.

[Winder]

Just to clarify things. What did you expect?

Even if he was thinking that Pentax is dying and he need to find a new job, he would not have said that in the Interview. His job is to be optimistic and communicate that to others. If a few guys brought more into the system or didn't switch because of what he said, he was successfull.

I didn't expect anything, and my expectations aren't relevant to his comments. He could have said a lot of things. He could have said what Fuji has said in the past. Lots of camera marketing executives give interviews without making that type of statement. Its not his job to communicate his personal optimism to the general public. Its his job to communicate for Pentax USA. There is a big difference.

[Nicolas06]

I didn't expect anything, and my expectations aren't relevant to his comments. He could have said a lot of things. He could have said what Fuji has said in the past. Lots of camera marketing executives give interviews without making that type of statement. Its not his job to communicate his personal optimism to the general public. Its his job to communicate for Pentax USA. There is a big difference.

Whatever he or other at Fuji says, you cannot ever take this as something relyable or trustfull. Also he talk of an expected result or situation he was after or Pentax was after (In the citation it seemed to be more a personnal point of view than Pentax one).

He didn't ever provide the criteria used to bench the different camera maker. I mean from volume and money earned alone, Apple & Samsung are clearly the leaders. Add picture quality and Canon/Nikon look obvious... Until you look at the 645Z, how it is affordable for an MF digital, how it sold so well, and how overall it provide even better picture quality than Nikon or Canon. Looking at it this way, Pentax may has already achieved his vision.

I mean we have that in France: 4 telecom company with quite different market share and quite different sales figures... Still when you listen to theirs ads they all cleam to be the leader, the first, the best, the only true one. I had a contract with one making maybe the biggest claims. It actual quality was the worse. (I tryed all 4 over the years).

Anyway I just take a look at overall market sales. Here an example of link: http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-undisputed-leader-market-shares-dslr-compact...n-bnc-ranking/

Ricoh is the third player in DSLR segment.

[Winder]

Whatever he or other at Fuji says, you cannot ever take this as something relyable or trustfull. Also he talk of an expected result or situation he was after or Pentax was after (In the citation it seemed to be more a personnal point of view than Pentax one).

He didn't ever provide the criteria used to bench the different camera maker. I mean from volume and money earned alone, Apple & Samsung are clearly the leaders. Add picture quality and Canon/Nikon look obvious... Until you look at the 645Z, how it is affordable for an MF digital, how it sold so well, and how overall it provide even better picture quality than Nikon or Canon. Looking at it this way, Pentax may has already achieved his vision.

I mean we have that in France: 4 telecom company with quite different market share and quite different sales figures... Still when you listen to theirs ads they all cleam to be the leader, the first, the best, the only true one. I had a contract with one making maybe the biggest claims. It actual quality was the worse. (I tryed all 4 over the years).

Anyway I just take a look at overall market sales. Here an example of link: Canon Undisputed Leader in Market Shares for DSLR and Compact Cameras in Japan (BNC Ranking) - CanonWatch

Ricoh is the third player in DSLR segment.

So you don't even know what Fuji said, but you say they can't be trusted?? Really? You're trying to discredit at statement you know nothing about?

Yes.... Ricoh is the third player in the DSLR segment.... Since there are only 3 companies making DSLRs that's a pretty brilliant deduction. Sony and Olympus no longer makes DSLRs, so by default Ricoh is now #3....... last place.

[luftfluss]

So you don't even know what Fuji said, but you say they can't be trusted?? Really? You're trying to discredit at statement you know nothing about?

Yes.... Ricoh is the third player in the DSLR segment.... Since there are only 3 companies making DSLRs that's a pretty brilliant deduction. Sony and Olympus no longer makes DSLRs, so by default Ricoh is now #3....... last place.

Sigma sells the SD1 Merrill.

And really, Sony's SLTs are essentially the functional equivalent of a DSLR.