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12-05-2014, 01:36 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I didn't expect anything, and my expectations aren't relevant to his comments. He could have said a lot of things. He could have said what Fuji has said in the past. Lots of camera marketing executives give interviews without making that type of statement. Its not his job to communicate his personal optimism to the general public. Its his job to communicate for Pentax USA. There is a big difference.
Whatever he or other at Fuji says, you cannot ever take this as something relyable or trustfull. Also he talk of an expected result or situation he was after or Pentax was after (In the citation it seemed to be more a personnal point of view than Pentax one).

He didn't ever provide the criteria used to bench the different camera maker. I mean from volume and money earned alone, Apple & Samsung are clearly the leaders. Add picture quality and Canon/Nikon look obvious... Until you look at the 645Z, how it is affordable for an MF digital, how it sold so well, and how overall it provide even better picture quality than Nikon or Canon. Looking at it this way, Pentax may has already achieved his vision.

I mean we have that in France: 4 telecom company with quite different market share and quite different sales figures... Still when you listen to theirs ads they all cleam to be the leader, the first, the best, the only true one. I had a contract with one making maybe the biggest claims. It actual quality was the worse. (I tryed all 4 over the years).

Anyway I just take a look at overall market sales. Here an example of link: http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-undisputed-leader-market-shares-dslr-compact...n-bnc-ranking/

Ricoh is the third player in DSLR segment.


Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-05-2014 at 01:56 PM.
12-05-2014, 03:35 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Whatever he or other at Fuji says, you cannot ever take this as something relyable or trustfull. Also he talk of an expected result or situation he was after or Pentax was after (In the citation it seemed to be more a personnal point of view than Pentax one).

He didn't ever provide the criteria used to bench the different camera maker. I mean from volume and money earned alone, Apple & Samsung are clearly the leaders. Add picture quality and Canon/Nikon look obvious... Until you look at the 645Z, how it is affordable for an MF digital, how it sold so well, and how overall it provide even better picture quality than Nikon or Canon. Looking at it this way, Pentax may has already achieved his vision.

I mean we have that in France: 4 telecom company with quite different market share and quite different sales figures... Still when you listen to theirs ads they all cleam to be the leader, the first, the best, the only true one. I had a contract with one making maybe the biggest claims. It actual quality was the worse. (I tryed all 4 over the years).

Anyway I just take a look at overall market sales. Here an example of link: Canon Undisputed Leader in Market Shares for DSLR and Compact Cameras in Japan (BNC Ranking) - CanonWatch

Ricoh is the third player in DSLR segment.
So you don't even know what Fuji said, but you say they can't be trusted?? Really? You're trying to discredit at statement you know nothing about?

Yes.... Ricoh is the third player in the DSLR segment.... Since there are only 3 companies making DSLRs that's a pretty brilliant deduction. Sony and Olympus no longer makes DSLRs, so by default Ricoh is now #3....... last place.
12-05-2014, 04:11 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So you don't even know what Fuji said, but you say they can't be trusted?? Really? You're trying to discredit at statement you know nothing about?

Yes.... Ricoh is the third player in the DSLR segment.... Since there are only 3 companies making DSLRs that's a pretty brilliant deduction. Sony and Olympus no longer makes DSLRs, so by default Ricoh is now #3....... last place.
Sigma sells the SD1 Merrill.

And really, Sony's SLTs are essentially the functional equivalent of a DSLR.
12-05-2014, 04:36 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Sigma sells the SD1 Merrill.

And really, Sony's SLTs are essentially the functional equivalent of a DSLR.
R=Reflex. No OVF and no Reflex mirror.... A mirrorless is the functional equivalent to a DSLR.

I did forget about the Sigma... Some where in the world there is probably some other DSLR being made by a company I have never heard of.

12-05-2014, 04:58 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So you don't even know what Fuji said, but you say they can't be trusted?? Really? You're trying to discredit at statement you know nothing about?

Yes.... Ricoh is the third player in the DSLR segment.... Since there are only 3 companies making DSLRs that's a pretty brilliant deduction. Sony and Olympus no longer makes DSLRs, so by default Ricoh is now #3....... last place.
And the ultimate question is whether there is some functionality or some service that can be delivered only by a DSLR. Time will tell, but as my wife often says, "My crystal ball has a crack in it, and I can't find a competent repairman".
12-05-2014, 05:00 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
R=Reflex. No OVF and no Reflex mirror.... A mirrorless is the functional equivalent to a DSLR.

I did forget about the Sigma... Some where in the world there is probably some other DSLR being made by a company I have never heard of.
There the MF maker and the film maker for DSLR I think too.

Now the question with 25% market share for mirrorless with Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Pentax, Panasonic, Samsung, Canon, Nikon... Even if you take the whole interchangeable echosystem and excluding apparently Sony from DSLR as you are, Pentax is still very likely 3th of the all interchangeable lenses cameras.

Looking a little bit to mirorless apparently Sony has arround 20-25% of it while Pentax has something like 7-8% of with different Q models alone.

There chance by summing everything, in particular if you want to say that Sony do not count as DSLR maker anymore and DSLR is still 75% of the market that Pentax is in 3th place for the whole interchangeable lenses camera market.

Finally the Pentax representatives claims where not so difficult to get. We are already here or about to be.
12-05-2014, 05:07 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So you don't even know what Fuji said, but you say they can't be trusted?? Really? You're trying to discredit at statement you know nothing about
I just say that in general one should not put to much faith into statements made by any company representative paid to sell the product.

I don't know for your country but here in France, BY LAW, you need to be loyal to your company. If you are not, you can be fired legaly and the company can ask for something to compensate the loss in reputation and so on.

Without going that futher, theses kind of guy are paid by the performance... And they are paid to represent the brand and increase sales.

They will not play against their natural interrests.

So when you listen to one of them, in particular in any form of interview or public representation, you can't expect them to be fully honest. That's against their job description, that's against their own interrest (to get more money out of their day job) and that's against the law.

I mean that's just common sense.

We can all trust all to each other by default, for everything and anything... Like you trust me on my opinion. That a nice world, to live in... Maybe not the world we live in.
12-05-2014, 05:10 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
R=Reflex. No OVF and no Reflex mirror.... A mirrorless is the functional equivalent to a DSLR.
If you ever use a Sony SLT, you'll find its more similar to a DSLR than mirrorless... except, I guess that Fuji X-T1, which I've never handled.

QuoteQuote:
I did forget about the Sigma... Some where in the world there is probably some other DSLR being made by a company I have never heard of.
I'm assuming you've heard of Leica, Hasselblad, etc.... but those are beyond our scope.

12-05-2014, 07:16 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
If you ever use a Sony SLT, you'll find its more similar to a DSLR than mirrorless... except, I guess that Fuji X-T1, which I've never handled.

I'm assuming you've heard of Leica, Hasselblad, etc.... but those are beyond our scope.
I have used the A99 on several occasions. A good friend has the A900 & A99. The EVF makes it seem like a mirrorless. I don't mind it, and its a really responsive camera, but its not a DSLR.

The medium formats are not considered DSLRs in the sales numbers I have seen.
12-05-2014, 07:34 PM   #130
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I think the words 'full-line' were in there somewhere. But I could be wrong.
12-06-2014, 02:17 AM   #131
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The words "Full Scale SLR" were definitely used for 645Z in Ricoh's T1 or T2 2014 Financial report...
If you are pessimistic, this wording is bad news for Full Frame SLR, if you are optimistic... i dunno
12-06-2014, 08:56 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I'll buy that once they have found at least 20.000 customers who are satisfied with such a system and say it is reliable.
Actually the idea isn't all bad. a mirrorless camera can in theory be very thin, but the K mount assumes that the lens is going to be far enough way from the 'film'/sensor' for a mirror to flop away.

now pentax tried making a mirrorless that was fat and thick and it didn't exactly take over the world, yet a pentax isn't a pentax unless it supports the K mount. Now a camera could be made with a folding adapter
that when retracted and equipped it a pancake lense would fit in your shirt pocket and have the thickness of a cell phone, and if they would add the phone circuitry, you could make phone calls with it too
and evensurf the internet on its view screen when you weren't taking photos.

Then when a rare bird lands in the tree on the other side of a pond full of alligators you can pull you DA-560 out of your other shirtpocket--- extend the lens mount and get those once in a lifetime photos while stabilizing the whole
thingon your pocket folding tripod
12-07-2014, 01:07 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
Actually the idea isn't all bad. a mirrorless camera can in theory be very thin, but the K mount assumes that the lens is going to be far enough way from the 'film'/sensor' for a mirror to flop away.

now pentax tried making a mirrorless that was fat and thick and it didn't exactly take over the world, yet a pentax isn't a pentax unless it supports the K mount. Now a camera could be made with a folding adapter
that when retracted and equipped it a pancake lense would fit in your shirt pocket and have the thickness of a cell phone, and if they would add the phone circuitry, you could make phone calls with it too
and evensurf the internet on its view screen when you weren't taking photos.

Then when a rare bird lands in the tree on the other side of a pond full of alligators you can pull you DA-560 out of your other shirtpocket--- extend the lens mount and get those once in a lifetime photos while stabilizing the whole
thingon your pocket folding tripod

This is a cell phone

Honestly, a K-01 can fit an APSC or FF sensor, no issue. Add a small bump on top and you have EVF. Ensure there some grip and buttons are well placed... And you have a winner, lot of sale from K-mount users... This would fit very well with both ltd line, DA20-40 or DA plastic wonder ! I duno how big a 50-100 f/2.8-4 could be to add to 20-40 could be ?
12-07-2014, 01:39 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
From what I can see, Ricoh has really aggressive pricing on their current models. Not necessarily in bodies alone, but in packages. With current pricing, they should sell quite a few K5 II and K3 cameras, as well as lenses to go with them. I feel like they are doing whatever they can to build a base of users to feed the full frame camera they plan to release next year. If that base isn't there, such a release could be a flop.
There is sense in this because the japanese economy is in recession. So if they don't sell enough k-mount cameras then it may put them off for a while. The main issue I see if that a new FF camera regardless of what people say is lacking in a comparable lens lineup to any other manufacturer. Ricoh can't rely on people having a collection of lenses. So they would need to have a program of new FF lenses IMO. Whether they can manage that is the issue and thus the thoughts that the 2 new telephoto zooms will in someway point towards a FF release.
12-07-2014, 01:48 AM   #135
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I am an ex-4/3 user. Olympus killed 4/3 because they so that they weren't gaining grounds with it. The Em1 is a fine camera. However, m4/3 isn't my cup of tea. When I talk with Nikon users, one of their reason with being loyal to Nikon is that the mount has always been alive and is in no danger of being discontinued. Maybe they're right. Pentax should look into making a MILC using the K-mount. Maybe reassessing how to improve the K-01.
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