Is this Pentax's future? Translucent mirror with adjustable transmission rate patent

JimmyDranox · 12-07-2014, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by thibs

No I don't think so.
And the big deal is that you can use a camera (yes, even a DSLR) without having a gazillon settings to.. well set.
WB for one is useless, use RAW. Screen is useful if you have lots of settings, useless if not, as long as a good EVF is there.
You can't deny some users would like to use a DSLR like a film camera. Just replace the film with a sensor.

And if it means among other things, no SR, so be it. And yes, I'd buy one.
I enjoy shooting film (up to SuperA, Z1 is too hitech) much more than a DSLR.

If I understand right, you want a film camera. I have a good news for you. There are a lot of film cameras on the market, collectible or not. Enjoy yourself.

If you want a DSLR without a screen, you can cover it with something. It's not necessary to impose something that only very few people want ( assuming there are more than one ). If you consider that are to many settings for you, I don't know.

Anyway, excuse me because I'm insistent, but this thread is about a new type of mirror patented by Ricoh.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 12-07-2014 at 06:22 PM.

thibs · 12-08-2014, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by JimmyDranox

If I understand right, you want a film camera. I have a good news for you. There are a lot of film cameras on the market, collectible or not. Enjoy yourself.

If you want a DSLR without a screen, you can cover it with something. It's not necessary to impose something that only very few people want ( assuming there are more than one ). If you consider that are to many settings for you, I don't know.

Anyway, excuse me because I'm insistent, but this thread is about a new type of mirror patented by Ricoh.

Because I launched that screen thing now ?

---------- Post added 08-12-14 at 17:24 ----------

Originally posted by Kunzite

You might not think so, but that's how things are: a $19k Leica Collector Edition camera thrown in a discussion about what would be feasible for Pentax.

I understand you could be perfectly fine with an extremely basic digital camera. I'm not convinced you'd pay Leica prices for it. Even the Nikon Df, which only removed video, bears a ~~$750~~ $1150 premium...

(replaced MSRP with B&H prices)

I didn't bring the Leica nor the screen thing.
And I never anywhere talked about price.

Kunzite · 12-08-2014, 10:05 AM

I never said you did, and neither did JimmyDranox. But I doubt you'd buy your simplified DSLR regardless of its price

Anyway - this topic is about a patent which could move Pentax DSLRs forward.

JimmyDranox · 12-09-2014, 09:08 PM

Looking again at the drawing of this new system, I think that I was wrong. This system will not use an OVF, but an EVF.

Why? Because the ray trance didn't show the light going upward, but to the upper left corner, where is a device linked to the lens, probably the AF controller. Same thing is said in the description. So, the mirror transmit a part of the light to the AF system, and the rest to the sensor, when the mirror is on 50-50%. And the sensor can transmit the image to the EVF. Of course, this is just my assumption, and I can be wrong again. But if I'm right, that seems that this mirror can aloud continue AF tracking in video, because the pixels in the sensor can be interpolated to create an image even with only 50% of the light.

When camera is set to take stills, the mirror change very quickly from 50-50 to 100% transmission, after the AF is done.

Of course, time will tell.

On the other hand, there were patents which have not entered into production.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 12-09-2014 at 09:15 PM.

Zygonyx · 12-10-2014, 12:44 AM

Not sure at all.
Not interested either in EVF*, but we will see as you said.

* : If you :

1- try EVF under artificial light (and see the very uncomfortable "oscilation" effects)
2- use your gear for tracking moving subjects (and see the very uncomfortable "banding" effects)
3- really like glass, and want to be able to use your lenses without having to pump battery power (for example wildlife shooting and observation)
4- rely on long battery life (long period nature treks / shooting or film sessions)

You may - if not have to - agree - if not admit - that OVF is the better option.

JimmyDranox · 12-10-2014, 01:08 AM

I like the OVF better than EVF. But who knows what Ricoh guys are preparing for us. By the way, I hate this secret policy of them.

Kunzite · 12-10-2014, 02:12 AM

Without reading the patent (even a Google translation), it's impossible to say how it could be applied. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the patent...
Indeed, the "104" component is not a description of an optical viewfinder; but perhaps it's something generic, as patents usually are?

JPT · 12-10-2014, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by JimmyDranox

Looking again at the drawing of this new system, I think that I was wrong. This system will not use an OVF, but an EVF.

Why? Because the ray trance didn't show the light going upward, but to the upper left corner, where is a device linked to the lens, probably the AF controller. Same thing is said in the description. So, the mirror transmit a part of the light to the AF system, and the rest to the sensor, when the mirror is on 50-50%. And the sensor can transmit the image to the EVF. Of course, this is just my assumption, and I can be wrong again. But if I'm right, that seems that this mirror can aloud continue AF tracking in video, because the pixels in the sensor can be interpolated to create an image even with only 50% of the light.

When camera is set to take stills, the mirror change very quickly from 50-50 to 100% transmission, after the AF is done.

Of course, time will tell.

On the other hand, there were patents which have not entered into production.

The diagrams show something very much like a Sony SLT camera. The following link shows DPR's description of the technology when the first SLT camera came

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/2

The problem with SLTs is that the mirror permanently diverts some of the light to the AF sensor. The novelty in the Ricoh patent is the amount of light the mirror reflects can be adjusted to apparently none. That seems to be the only substantial difference from the Sony, but it's an important difference.

totsmuyco · 12-10-2014, 04:14 AM

Whatever is coming I hope there will also be an APS-C replacement and a FF for those who have been waiting. Whatever is coming, I want Pentax to SHOCK ME!

thibs · 12-10-2014, 05:46 AM

Mmm what if you combine this with a hybrid VF, or OVF with HUD ??

Kunzite · 12-10-2014, 06:10 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Whatever is coming, I want Pentax to SHOCK ME!

Noted. (to connect the camera grip to a charged condenser, making sure the user will be SHOCKED when he tries to hold the camera).

JimmyDranox · 12-10-2014, 07:20 AM

+1. That's would be truly shocking, and will ''please'' everyone.

LensBeginner · 12-10-2014, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Noted. (to connect the camera grip to a charged condenser, making sure the user will be SHOCKED when he tries to hold the camera).

Don't forget a sizeable coil in order to up the voltage...

totsmuyco · 12-10-2014, 03:49 PM

LOL. That grip would truly be a great SHOCKER.

Danzarr · 12-10-2014, 04:15 PM

I doubt the slr design will ever disappear. its too functional, too iconic, too engrained to go, and with sony's success with mirrorless rather than there other professional bodies, it seems that theres more hope in a pro mirrorless market than the slt market.

literealy, when was the last time you heard someone talk about a sony camera other than the a7 series? not including bitching about the e, a mount system

12-08-2014, 10:05 AM	#63
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I never said you did, and neither did JimmyDranox. But I doubt you'd buy your simplified DSLR regardless of its price Anyway - this topic is about a patent which could move Pentax DSLRs forward. Last edited by Kunzite; 12-08-2014 at 10:29 AM.

12-10-2014, 12:44 AM	#65
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Not sure at all. Not interested either in EVF, but we will see as you said. : If you : 1- try EVF under artificial light (and see the very uncomfortable "oscilation" effects) 2- use your gear for tracking moving subjects (and see the very uncomfortable "banding" effects) 3- really like glass, and want to be able to use your lenses without having to pump battery power (for example wildlife shooting and observation) 4- rely on long battery life (long period nature treks / shooting or film sessions) You may - if not have to - agree - if not admit - that OVF is the better option. Last edited by Zygonyx; 12-10-2014 at 12:50 AM.

12-10-2014, 02:21 AM	#68
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Originally posted by JimmyDranox Looking again at the drawing of this new system, I think that I was wrong. This system will not use an OVF, but an EVF. Why? Because the ray trance didn't show the light going upward, but to the upper left corner, where is a device linked to the lens, probably the AF controller. Same thing is said in the description. So, the mirror transmit a part of the light to the AF system, and the rest to the sensor, when the mirror is on 50-50%. And the sensor can transmit the image to the EVF. Of course, this is just my assumption, and I can be wrong again. But if I'm right, that seems that this mirror can aloud continue AF tracking in video, because the pixels in the sensor can be interpolated to create an image even with only 50% of the light. When camera is set to take stills, the mirror change very quickly from 50-50 to 100% transmission, after the AF is done. Of course, time will tell. On the other hand, there were patents which have not entered into production. The diagrams show something very much like a Sony SLT camera. The following link shows DPR's description of the technology when the first SLT camera came http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/2 The problem with SLTs is that the mirror permanently diverts some of the light to the AF sensor. The novelty in the Ricoh patent is the amount of light the mirror reflects can be adjusted to apparently none. That seems to be the only substantial difference from the Sony, but it's an important difference. Last edited by JPT; 12-10-2014 at 06:45 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Is this the dreaded mirror flop?	csmoore	Pentax K-r	21	06-02-2013 01:27 PM
Ricoh patent: 28mm equiv. lenses - Future of GRD and GXR?	JPT	Pentax News and Rumors	2	07-07-2012 08:04 PM
A translucent mirror for AF in K01	grahame	Pentax K-01	19	07-01-2012 01:39 PM
Is the K20D sensor based on this patent?	Olivier	Pentax News and Rumors	13	05-14-2010 05:30 AM
Is this the future sensor in KxxD?	lol101	Pentax News and Rumors	12	12-03-2007 01:43 PM

12-07-2014, 05:55 PM	#61
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	Originally posted by thibs No I don't think so. And the big deal is that you can use a camera (yes, even a DSLR) without having a gazillon settings to.. well set. WB for one is useless, use RAW. Screen is useful if you have lots of settings, useless if not, as long as a good EVF is there. You can't deny some users would like to use a DSLR like a film camera. Just replace the film with a sensor. And if it means among other things, no SR, so be it. And yes, I'd buy one. I enjoy shooting film (up to SuperA, Z1 is too hitech) much more than a DSLR. If I understand right, you want a film camera. I have a good news for you. There are a lot of film cameras on the market, collectible or not. Enjoy yourself. If you want a DSLR without a screen, you can cover it with something. It's not necessary to impose something that only very few people want ( assuming there are more than one ). If you consider that are to many settings for you, I don't know. Anyway, excuse me because I'm insistent, but this thread is about a new type of mirror patented by Ricoh. Last edited by JimmyDranox; 12-07-2014 at 06:22 PM.

12-08-2014, 09:15 AM	#62
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by JimmyDranox If I understand right, you want a film camera. I have a good news for you. There are a lot of film cameras on the market, collectible or not. Enjoy yourself. If you want a DSLR without a screen, you can cover it with something. It's not necessary to impose something that only very few people want ( assuming there are more than one ). If you consider that are to many settings for you, I don't know. Anyway, excuse me because I'm insistent, but this thread is about a new type of mirror patented by Ricoh. Because I launched that screen thing now ? ---------- Post added 08-12-14 at 17:24 ---------- Originally posted by Kunzite You might not think so, but that's how things are: a $19k Leica Collector Edition camera thrown in a discussion about what would be feasible for Pentax. I understand you could be perfectly fine with an extremely basic digital camera. I'm not convinced you'd pay Leica prices for it. Even the Nikon Df, which only removed video, bears a ~~$750~~ $1150 premium... (replaced MSRP with B&H prices) I didn't bring the Leica nor the screen thing. And I never anywhere talked about price.

12-09-2014, 09:08 PM	#64
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	Looking again at the drawing of this new system, I think that I was wrong. This system will not use an OVF, but an EVF. Why? Because the ray trance didn't show the light going upward, but to the upper left corner, where is a device linked to the lens, probably the AF controller. Same thing is said in the description. So, the mirror transmit a part of the light to the AF system, and the rest to the sensor, when the mirror is on 50-50%. And the sensor can transmit the image to the EVF. Of course, this is just my assumption, and I can be wrong again. But if I'm right, that seems that this mirror can aloud continue AF tracking in video, because the pixels in the sensor can be interpolated to create an image even with only 50% of the light. When camera is set to take stills, the mirror change very quickly from 50-50 to 100% transmission, after the AF is done. Of course, time will tell. On the other hand, there were patents which have not entered into production. Last edited by JimmyDranox; 12-09-2014 at 09:15 PM.

12-10-2014, 01:08 AM	#66
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	I like the OVF better than EVF. But who knows what Ricoh guys are preparing for us. By the way, I hate this secret policy of them.

12-10-2014, 02:12 AM	#67
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Without reading the patent (even a Google translation), it's impossible to say how it could be applied. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the patent... Indeed, the "104" component is not a description of an optical viewfinder; but perhaps it's something generic, as patents usually are?

12-10-2014, 04:14 AM	#69
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Whatever is coming I hope there will also be an APS-C replacement and a FF for those who have been waiting. Whatever is coming, I want Pentax to SHOCK ME!

12-10-2014, 05:46 AM	#70
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Mmm what if you combine this with a hybrid VF, or OVF with HUD ??

12-10-2014, 06:10 AM - 1 Like	#71
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by totsmuyco Whatever is coming, I want Pentax to SHOCK ME! Noted. (to connect the camera grip to a charged condenser, making sure the user will be SHOCKED when he tries to hold the camera).

12-10-2014, 07:20 AM	#72
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	+1. That's would be truly shocking, and will ''please'' everyone.

12-10-2014, 12:57 PM	#73
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by Kunzite Noted. (to connect the camera grip to a charged condenser, making sure the user will be SHOCKED when he tries to hold the camera). Don't forget a sizeable coil in order to up the voltage...

12-10-2014, 03:49 PM	#74
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	LOL. That grip would truly be a great SHOCKER.

12-10-2014, 04:15 PM	#75
Danzarr New Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	I doubt the slr design will ever disappear. its too functional, too iconic, too engrained to go, and with sony's success with mirrorless rather than there other professional bodies, it seems that theres more hope in a pro mirrorless market than the slt market. literealy, when was the last time you heard someone talk about a sony camera other than the a7 series? not including bitching about the e, a mount system