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12-22-2014, 12:21 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
Agreed. I still can't believe it took this long for someone to make a FF mirrorless with IBIS. Maybe it's been on Sony's radar for a while, but they were able to milk the A7/R/S first, now they can release the Mark II's with IBIS and gain new customers along with repeat sales to existing A7 owners. That's what I would do, if the market allowed.

I don't think its just Pentax that need to respond though, canikon are seriously going to hurting, if the a7 mkii, is as good as it sounds.

12-22-2014, 12:22 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
Agreed. I still can't believe it took this long for someone to make a FF mirrorless with IBIS. Maybe it's been on Sony's radar for a while, but they were able to milk the A7/R/S first, now they can release the Mark II's with IBIS and gain new customers along with repeat sales to existing A7 owners. That's what I would do, if the market allowed.
Look at the A7 weight... Same as a K50, more than K-S1. They loose most of the weight advantage and they keep only the size. I suppose this come in big part from IBIS.

I think they had to discuss quite some time to add a new feature that would justify buying A7 II without alienating future of A7R II sales. The IBIS is a good idea. I would wish Pentax could improve their own so it can work for long shots of maybe 1-2s. Would be really nice. What they need most still is more lenses of all size and price to get a real echosystem.

To me all of this mean the best is to wait 2-3 years for Sony to have the lenses maybe at more affordable price (I don't like that much MF to get focal length Sony doesn't provide) and also all the features we could ask for in their body.

Or get some alternate offering from Fuji (smaller, less expensive, faster lenses but APSC), Olympus/Pana or see how it will go for Pentax/Canon/Nikon.

Maybe it is just because I can't justify the spending and don't have that many thousand $/€ for spare.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-22-2014 at 12:30 AM.
12-22-2014, 02:02 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Look at the A7 weight... Same as a K50, more than K-S1. They loose most of the weight advantage and they keep only the size. I suppose this come in big part from IBIS.
Size? The A7 II is both wider and higher than the K-S1.

A compact Pentax FF camera, with a wide and normal zoom in addition to the already known tele zoom, will certainly be a very competitive alternative.
12-22-2014, 02:13 AM - 2 Likes   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Size? The A7 II is both wider and higher than the K-S1.

A compact Pentax FF camera, with a wide and normal zoom in addition to the already known tele zoom, will certainly be a very competitive alternative.
We're forgetting about formats here. Or should I now mention that the Q is smaller then both K-S1 and A7II?

12-22-2014, 03:19 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
We're forgetting about formats here. Or should I now mention that the Q is smaller then both K-S1 and A7II?
The K-mount suppport FF. and has the space for the mirror and so on. K-S1 could be FF and no bigger. Still if size is an issue using a smaller sensor is part of the solution, not part of the issue...
12-22-2014, 03:36 AM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The K-mount suppport FF. and has the space for the mirror and so on. K-S1 could be FF and no bigger. Still if size is an issue using a smaller sensor is part of the solution, not part of the issue...
Wow, if it only was as simple as jamming an FF sensor into an APS-C body. If it was that simple then we would have been rocking FF Ist D cameras YEARS ago. You're forgetting about the fact that the bigger sensor also needs a bigger SR mechanism too. Especially 5D IBIS, which Pentax currently also doesn't even have. The bigger mirror is going to need a more heavy duty mechanism and impact dampening. Bigger focussing screen, bigger prism, bigger OVF optics. And who knows what I'm still forgetting.
12-22-2014, 03:55 AM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
We're forgetting about formats here. Or should I now mention that the Q is smaller then both K-S1 and A7II?
I'm not expecting the K-FF to be K-S1 sized, nor am I hoping for it. I'm expecting it to be K-3-sized, I think that's doable.
12-22-2014, 04:02 AM   #278
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It depends on which kind of "FF" we're talking about, but it's unlikely they would target a "most compact" design, like with the K-S1. And it won't be easy to fit an advanced SLR in a K-S1 body... for example, the K-3's 3 separate electric motors (shutter, mirror, aperture IIRX).
They could probably be able to make a K-S1 sized "FF"... with a tiny, APS-C like viewfinder, compact APS-C AF system and entry level features. Who would want it?

12-22-2014, 06:07 AM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Wow, if it only was as simple as jamming an FF sensor into an APS-C body. If it was that simple then we would have been rocking FF Ist D cameras YEARS ago. You're forgetting about the fact that the bigger sensor also needs a bigger SR mechanism too. Especially 5D IBIS, which Pentax currently also doesn't even have. The bigger mirror is going to need a more heavy duty mechanism and impact dampening. Bigger focussing screen, bigger prism, bigger OVF optics. And who knows what I'm still forgetting.
There must be an IBIS focal length limitation when pairing a FF format with K-mount. The longer the focal length, the greater the amplitude of sensor movement in IBIS. That's fine with APS-C but the K-mount was designed for a static sensor (film), not one that would have to move around.

My guess is these two new zoom lenses will have either OIS or very oversized image circles compared to other FF K-mount lenses. If I had to put money on one of those two outcomes, I'd go with OIS.
12-22-2014, 06:33 AM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Wow, if it only was as simple as jamming an FF sensor into an APS-C body. If it was that simple then we would have been rocking FF Ist D cameras YEARS ago. You're forgetting about the fact that the bigger sensor also needs a bigger SR mechanism too. Especially 5D IBIS, which Pentax currently also doesn't even have. The bigger mirror is going to need a more heavy duty mechanism and impact dampening. Bigger focussing screen, bigger prism, bigger OVF optics. And who knows what I'm still forgetting.
The SR is non argument: Sony has it in its A7 II, so it is possible.
The sensor size is non argument: Sony has it too.

The mirror has to fit inside the volume of the mount anyway. Only the motors for this mirror has to be bigger and the OVF. Still such compact system was here many many here ego before even digital. Nothing special really.

All of the rest, if the A7 can fit it in its body, the other can too. And for sure A7 II or A7r are not seen as basic by their users.

One has to be consistent. if the A7 is good and so own, we can replicate it exactly but with a bigger box for the mount and either an OVF or an EVF. No more to say.

If this is not possible due to impossibility to pack feature in such tiny box... Well A7 may be very limited too.
12-22-2014, 06:59 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The SR is non argument: Sony has it in its A7 II, so it is possible.
The sensor size is non argument: Sony has it too.
Yes... And the Sony is bith higher and wider then the K-S1. An FF sensor won't fit in the K-S1 without sacrifices.
12-22-2014, 07:42 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
Agreed. I still can't believe it took this long for someone to make a FF mirrorless with IBIS. Maybe it's been on Sony's radar for a while, but they were able to milk the A7/R/S first, now they can release the Mark II's with IBIS and gain new customers along with repeat sales to existing A7 owners. That's what I would do, if the market allowed.
IBIS is one of the things Sony gets to use in exchange for the cash infusion into Olympus.
12-22-2014, 07:45 AM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
My guess is these two new zoom lenses will have either OIS or very oversized image circles compared to other FF K-mount lenses. If I had to put money on one of those two outcomes, I'd go with OIS.
Well the supposed prototypes recently shown at Photokina did seem to have a large number of supposed switches.
12-22-2014, 08:01 AM   #284
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Decisions, decisions ... oh dear, my head is hurting. Here are three outcomes for whatever Ricoh do in 2015:

Yesterday's camera tomorrow: a standard DSLR that could just as easily have been designed and produced by Canon or Nikon.
Today's camera tomorrow: a clone of a Sony A7. Folks will say Fab and then go out and buy a Sony A7.
Tomorrow's camera tomorrow: Ricoh's sincerely best shot at something which is neither of the above and which is designed to offer a proper system over several years. Guaranteed 100 per cent free from funny artificial color schemes, product pics involving strawberry torte or a 40 per cent price drop after eight weeks.

If it's #3, I'd be in the game. If it's #1 or #2, sayonara and it will be time to move on because Ricoh will have stopped making anything at all that is distinct to Ricoh (or Pentax). I'd imagine that by now the die is cast, because they'll be at the manufacturing stage for some of the materials at least. I doubt Ricoh have taken a seriously large corporate stand at CP+ because they have nothing to say.

Last edited by mecrox; 12-22-2014 at 08:10 AM.
12-22-2014, 08:07 AM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IBIS is one of the things Sony gets to use in exchange for the cash infusion into Olympus.
Sony has had IBIS for years. The mechanical part of the new 5 axis IBIS is nothing like what Olympus is using. Olympus might have provided the software for they system, but the hard parts look to be a completely new design. Nothing like the existing IBIS used by the A99 or the 5 axis used by Olympus. It also doesn't seem to perform as well as the Olympus version. With the 55mm F/1.8 I'm only getting 2+ stops out of it. 1/15th of a second is nice and sharp. 1/8th of a second has not been consistently sharp. 1/3rd of a second is consistently showing some blur at 100%, but would be fine for internet use.
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