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12-22-2014, 08:12 AM - 1 Like   #286
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I wouldn't mind if the future Pentax FF will be just a standard DSLR.

I will be very displeased if that FF will be so small that I have to keep it in my hand like a smartphone, which is the case with Sony A7.

Let's remember that sometime, ''better'' is the enemy of ''good''.

12-22-2014, 08:20 AM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Let's remember that sometime, ''better'' is the enemy of ''good''.
The progression of an ordered meritocracy is:
  1. Good
  2. Better
  3. Best
A group must agree on the characteristics of 'Good' before it can begin to order candidates.

As repeatedly demonstrated on this Forum, the group does not agree.
12-22-2014, 08:40 AM - 1 Like   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The progression of an ordered meritocracy is:
  1. Good
  2. Better
  3. Best
A group must agree on the characteristics of 'Good' before it can begin to order candidates.

As repeatedly demonstrated on this Forum, the group does not agree.
Yes, this group does not agree about the future. But being in the a majority DSLR users, we can assume the DSLR is ''good''.

About ''better'', I've seen what has happened when K-S1 was announced. And I thing that K-S1 brings some new features, which can be considered a progress by some. But not everyone would agree about what was good and what not in this new features.

''Best'' is entirely subjective, and usually an agreement is reached only for past tense, if I may say so.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 12-22-2014 at 08:51 AM.
12-22-2014, 09:07 AM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I wouldn't mind if the future Pentax FF will be just a standard DSLR.
I wouldn't mind if the future Pentax FF will be a typical Pentax DSLR either. In fact, I would mind if it won't be

12-22-2014, 09:23 AM   #290
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I wouldn't mind if it was no DSLR but a new kind of SLT with for example continuous video AF.
12-22-2014, 09:26 AM - 1 Like   #291
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Order of factors does change the results!

One major sales point in favor of Pentax is the backwards compatibility with every single K mount lens ever made, giving the chance to every newcomer to Pentax, to experience lots of focal lengths without needing to buy "new".

Agree? Of course, we all agree, but from the PHOTOGRAPHERS point of view. The same concept from the manufacturer point of view, results in mixed feelings between marketing, sales and public relations, and of course, all this mixed into a brand name that to be honest, does not have the market share neither the customer loyalty to simply drop a line of products and come with a new system every 10 or 12 years, as Canon and Sony have done.

Many years ago, camera bodies were considered cherished jewels; collectors items and devices expected to last for generations. Today, cameras (bodies) have suffered the unstoppable tendency of the "built in obsolescence", present in every single device purchased today. From home electronics and appliances; computers and peripherals, vehicles and even watches. They are all built and designed with a DEADLINE for its end of life. All of them will eventually become so obsolete, that repair of refurbish will be out of the question. It will be more expensive than throwing away and buying new.

Just a few days ago, I learned something very disturbing: I asked the local Pentax dealer to special order a replacement pc socket cap for my *istD. After two weeks, he called me and said that Pentax (Japan) has no such part in inventory (discontinued) and that another customer needed another part (eyepiece element) and this part was also discontinued. I also learned something a little more disturbing, which is that every single DSLR body make by Pentax (except the *istD), has a PERMANENT backup/bios battery inside which is NOT REPLACEABLE. It is soldered to the motherboard and replacing such battery means replacing the motherboard, which by the time it expires (6 to 8 years), such motherboard will not be available and if it is, just the parts and labor will cost about 10 times as much as the current camera's market value.

OTOH, optics (lenses) have become a more "durable" item. If you have noticed, glass prices have been growing steady in the past years. Lenses have become the "money producers" for the camera companies. The bodies are now considered "disposable" and in some way, often sold at reduced prices (probably at or under cost), just to give customers an incentive to purchase more and more glass.

This is where the order of factors does change the results; with this idea in mind, it makes no sense at all in relying on the once famous backwards compatibility of the K mount. What the manufacturer wants is to SELL MORE GLASS, and if they have to dump the bodies at super reduced prices to increase glass sales, then it makes sense.

Where does all this fits in relation to a new flagship camera? IMHO, we've seen so far about half of the story. The first half which is about dumping camera prices (K3 price drop). Then, from some relieable "sources", we are close to seeing the second part of the story, which is not necessarily about a new flagship camera. I would dare to speculate its gonna be about a very innnovative and totally new way of marketing cameras and lenses. Of course, it will include new cameras but I am sure that will also include some new glass at consumer level prices.

I do believe Pentax (Ricoh) have the expertise and capacity to built top quality cameras and lenses, but to be honest, they DO NOT have the name to sell at pro level prices (except probably the 645 system).

Any new body (flagship???) will have to sell under $1500, even if full frame. Pentax is not "market ready" to show up with a $2000+ body only camera. OTOH, they also need some consumer level glass with a reasonable arsenal of (equivalent) 28, 50, 75, 135 and 200 mm glass at consumer level prices, probably between $200 and $400.

Remember: Pentax (Ricoh) makes NO PROFIT from the used lens market. Just take a look at https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/250604-how-...-you-have.html. I bet that someone at Ricoh just drools about the idea of having just "half" of that market in new glass sales.
12-22-2014, 09:42 AM   #292
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Do you mean SONY is not a name to sell pro level gear ?
I understand Ricoh is struggling for Pentax's increasing marketshare, but i doubt they can succeed without a comprehensive product game...
12-22-2014, 09:59 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I wouldn't mind if it was no DSLR but a new kind of SLT with for example continuous video AF.
Exactement, or even a 645 in miniature with a clever multi-shot sensor-shift system that delivers superb, high-res landscape images. If a standard-issue FF DSLR, there'd be little point in buying it over Canon or Nikon unless one already had an ample sufficiency of Pentax lenses. Canon and Nikon have every aspect of standard-issue covered in detail including a mountain of lenses new and old as well as all sorts of flashes and accessories. How could Pentax hope to compete with the plethora of second-hand, nearly-new and discount deals on Canonikon products? A Pentax camera has to be different enough to stand apart, avoid direct competition and above all convince folks it's worth paying full new price for, I would think.

12-22-2014, 10:01 AM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Do you mean SONY is not a name to sell pro level gear ?
I understand Ricoh is struggling for Pentax's increasing marketshare, but i doubt they can succeed without a comprehensive product game...
On the contrary; it is because of their good name and reputation, that they can drop entire product lines and come up with new systems "not backwards compatible" (as Pentax) every decade or so.
12-22-2014, 10:17 AM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Any new body (flagship???) will have to sell under $1500, even if full frame. Pentax is not "market ready" to show up with a $2000+ body only camera. OTOH, they also need some consumer level glass with a reasonable arsenal of (equivalent) 28, 50, 75, 135 and 200 mm glass at consumer level prices, probably between $200 and $400.
I disagree. On the contrary, a higher level camera might be required in order to keep people willing to pay $$$$ for their gear from leaving. If they try to go cheap they will end up with a compromised product - which won't be able to compete with the competition's obsolete, discounted models.
We should take the hint from the 70-200 f/2.8-ish prototype lens presented at Photokina; that won't be cheap, no current 70-200 f/2.8 is. Well, I'm fine with paying for quality.

And of course, they already have a flagship which sells for much more than $2000
12-22-2014, 10:34 AM - 4 Likes   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Any new body (flagship???) will have to sell under $1500, even if full frame. Pentax is not "market ready" to show up with a $2000+ body only camera. OTOH, they also need some consumer level glass with a reasonable arsenal of (equivalent) 28, 50, 75, 135 and 200 mm glass at consumer level prices, probably between $200 and $400.
Only true if they want to embrace the high-volume, low-margin, Box-store business model. They've implied they'll choose not to compete that way (versus Canon and Nikon).
QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Remember: Pentax (Ricoh) makes NO PROFIT from the used lens market. Just take a look at How many lenses do you have?. I bet that someone at Ricoh just drools about the idea of having just "half" of that market in new glass sales.
Pentax is committed to Q, K-mount and 645.

End of story.

Over the last 15 years I've bought (by my own spreadsheet records)136 used Pentax lenses and sold 131 of them, 27 used Pentax bodies and sold 24 of them, and (net) 3 new Pentax bodies (I gave the others as gifts*). Over the last 24 months I've bought 8 brand new Ricoh Imaging / Pentax lenses, 7 brand-new Ricoh Imaging / Pentax bodies (K-01, Q's, Q7 and K-3) over the last 6 months I've bought no used equipment.

I finally have confidence that Pentax and the K-mount will be around long enough to make significant capital investment in significant new equipment a good risk.

*[EDIT 12/24: I gave the last Q/02 NewEgg Deal kit out of my 'stockpile' - Q'sers know about the stockpile - to a newlywed couple this morning. The jaw-drop was something to behold .]

Last edited by monochrome; 12-24-2014 at 02:37 PM.
12-22-2014, 10:57 AM - 2 Likes   #297
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Oh God, who needs Sony? I've got a three of their cameras and they're fun but strip away that aggressive noise reduction and it's like the King's new clothes! Sony is not so hot, and it really stinks how they cripple bracketing and timer functions on some of their cameras. Their new FF cameras are really cool but how durable do you think they are? Nobody knows because they haven't been around long enough. So you're really rolling the dice with products potentially designed to be disposable.

The Olympus OMD EM1 is a great camera indeed, but personally those little sensors turn me off. I don't know about you but I'm not going to upgrade to a smaller sensor, ibis or no Ibis.

The Fuji Xti is the way to go, if you listen to those shameless know-it-all hipster shills at Dpreview, but that X-trans sensor is just awful. Don't believe the hype. Too much watercolor-like stylization in the files. The Fuji Xti doesn't even take photographs, it takes illustrations.

There are so many other options. There's Canikon SLR's if you want to run with the herd and don't mind walking around with a big toaster in your hands. There's the super-attractive new Korean NX but again there's the unknown durability factor. I could go on.

It seems to me that whatever the specs I'll make due because Pentax is still the best way for me to go. Pentax may very well be on the way out but if it sinks I'm going down with the ship. Don't let Gear-lust strike you blind.

Happy Holidays..............Fanboy after all...

Last edited by jeff knight; 12-22-2014 at 01:55 PM.
12-22-2014, 11:52 AM - 2 Likes   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Remember: Pentax (Ricoh) makes NO PROFIT from the used lens market. Just take a look at https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/250604-how-...-you-have.html. I bet that someone at Ricoh just drools about the idea of having just "half" of that market in new glass sales.

There's only one reason why I would quit using Pentax - if they'd discontinue the K-mount.
12-22-2014, 11:55 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You're forgetting about the fact that the bigger sensor also needs a bigger SR mechanism too. Especially 5D IBIS, which Pentax currently also doesn't even have.
I don't think 5-axis stabilization requires any change to the SR mechanism at all beyond what Pentax has implemented already.

The five axes are movement sensors only (vertical translation, horizontal translation, axial rotation, vertical tilt, horizontal tilt) and all contribute to moving the image sensor with three degrees of freedom: vertical translation, horizontal translation, and axial rotation. The image sensor doesn't tilt. If it did it would throw the image out of focus.
12-24-2014, 02:34 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
There's only one reason why I would quit using Pentax - if they'd discontinue the K-mount.
Yep, that's the gist of it all.
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